Re: Fermenting jars with air locks?

[Guest guest]

Well, what I did was to make my own ceramic spacers (out of clay I knew I

could

trust). I make a limited number of these for anyone who wants them. I sell

them

actually somewhat below what it costs to make them, because I think some

product

like this *should* exist.

See:

http://www.dunkers.us/

<http://www.dunkers.us/>And you can see them in action. Better pictures are

at:

http://www.etsy.com/listing/38088484/dunker-scalloped?ref=sr_gallery_3 & ga_search\

_query=dunkers & ga_search_type=handmade

You could also make your own if you have access to a clay studio: they are

really easy!

Another thing that works well is " condiment cups " which are widely

available. They are

similar white ceramic, high-fired and unlikely to have lead etc. I got some

at a restaurant-supply

place for $3 each and they do work, though since they are hollow they are

not as heavy (you

could fill them with the glass beads though, if you wanted).

My experience with using stuff like the glass beads is: it's hard to pick

them all

out, and someone ends up biting one. I made some clay beads for putting in

with

garlic cloves, to keep them from molding. I was making some Baba Ganoush,

and put

the clay in the blender instead of garlic .... and ruined the whole batch.

So it's better, IMO, to cover the kraut with a salted cabbage leaf, and use

ANY spacer.

The spacer doesn't have to be heavy (in commercial kimchi they use plastic)

because the

lid will hold it down. If the lid is plastic, you don't have to worry about

an airlock either.

So basically you are looking for a piece of " something " that is around 3 "

diameter and an inch

or two high, and inert.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Harkness <davidharkness@...>wrote:

> After packing my fermented kraut into quart jars last night, I have a

> greater appreciation for the idea of fermenting in the jar. I purchased

> wide mouth quart jars (Kerr), and I'm thinking of rigging something up

> similar to the pickl-it jars. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in some lids

> and either installing a rubber grommet for an air-lock, or just using a

> drilled rubber stopper to hold the air lock. The question is what to use

> to

> weight the cabbage? I'm thinking of using the clear glass " gems " like you

> might find in aquariums & such.

>

> Here's a link to the " gems " I'm talking about:

> http://www.mcgillswarehouse.com/ItemsList.aspx?ProductID=125300001

>

> It sounds like there may be some kind of coating on them; so, if I get

> them,

> I'll probably leach them in muratic acid for a few days to remove any

> metals. Packing a 3/4 " inch layer of the " gems " on top of the kraut

> could hold the cabbage down and allow a little room for the air lock to

> protrude into the jar. Once it's ready for the refrigerator, I would

> simply

> remove the " gems, " replace the drilled lid with a new lid, and tighten down

> the screw ring.

>

> Any thoughts on this? Any ideas for what I might use in place of the glass

> " gems " ?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I use 2 Qt Wide Mouth Mason jars and the one piece white lid made for those.

They are not airtight, allowing for gas to escape. I don't think you need to do

anything fancy, just those white lids. sells Dunkers - weights that fit

in the jars to keep the kraut down. There isn't much else, if anything, that

fits into the mouth of the jars and covers enough surface to keep all down.

Kathleen

" Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to

their limitations again. " R. Cook

________________________________

From: Harkness <davidharkness@...>

nutrition

Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 6:06:16 PM

Subject: Fermenting jars with air locks?

After packing my fermented kraut into quart jars last night, I have a

greater appreciation for the idea of fermenting in the jar. I purchased

wide mouth quart jars (Kerr), and I'm thinking of rigging something up

similar to the pickl-it jars. I'm thinking of drilling a hole in some lids

and either installing a rubber grommet for an air-lock, or just using a

drilled rubber stopper to hold the air lock. The question is what to use to

weight the cabbage? I'm thinking of using the clear glass " gems " like you

might find in aquariums & such.

Here's a link to the " gems " I'm talking about:

http://www.mcgillswarehouse.com/ItemsList.aspx?ProductID=125300001

It sounds like there may be some kind of coating on them; so, if I get them,

I'll probably leach them in muratic acid for a few days to remove any

metals. Packing a 3/4 " inch layer of the " gems " on top of the kraut

could hold the cabbage down and allow a little room for the air lock to

protrude into the jar. Once it's ready for the refrigerator, I would simply

remove the " gems, " replace the drilled lid with a new lid, and tighten down

the screw ring.

Any thoughts on this? Any ideas for what I might use in place of the glass

" gems " ?

[Guest guest]

,

Why is the shipping so much for the Dunkers? Just curious.

Kathleen

" Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to

their limitations again. " R. Cook

________________________________

From:

[Guest guest]

I suppose I should get wiser about shipping. Mainly the issue is: I am very

busy.

So I use the one-price boxes. But the only one that works (without breakage,

based

on experiments) is the $10 one. So I use that one.

If I was running this as a business, I'd have someone just let them ship

packages

all day. But, it's not my business. I love making clay things.

I don't like shipping them, and it isn't profitable enough to hire someone

else to do it.

So, I probably should get better about learning about shipping. It's a

pretty low priority

though. I've been hoping someone else with more time will steal the idea

and make their own version.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...> wrote:

> ,

>

> Why is the shipping so much for the Dunkers? Just curious.

>

> Kathleen

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay

> attention to

> their limitations again. " R. Cook

>

>

>

>

> ________________________________

> From:

[Guest guest]

For anyone who wants to use dunkers, Pickl-It sells

theirs separately so you can get the dunkers without

buying the jar. Go to www.pickl-it.com and look under

products / pickl-it parts. Their dunkers are glass,

and about 6.50 each ( I think ) I don't know about

shipping.

-bompu

[Guest guest]

I use the old rolled carrot leaves on top that I " tuck " into the edges and press

down tightly so the liquid overflows the leaves on top. I have never in a few

yers of fermenting have had one bad batch. Simple and effective. Oh and my

husband eagerly awaits my harvesting to eat the top leaves. I read on another

list that these were used for cabbage rolls in olden days when they wisely knew

to ferment foods!

Millie

[Guest guest]

I'm guessing that the pickl-it dunker is sized for their jar and may not work

for other jars. It does seem odd that there aren't already a variety of

products to serve this purpose, available in various sizes.

>

> For anyone who wants to use dunkers, Pickl-It sells

> theirs separately so you can get the dunkers without

> buying the jar. Go to www.pickl-it.com and look under

> products / pickl-it parts. Their dunkers are glass,

> and about 6.50 each ( I think ) I don't know about

> shipping.

>

> -bompu

>

[Guest guest]

oops, yes, I meant cabbage leaves, not carrot leaves, of course. That's so

interesting about the whole heads of fermented cabbages in days past. I think

they might chuckle at our pickl-it airlock jars today. I did break down and buy

one and noticed no difference in the kraut at all.

Millie

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I like the design you came up with. I considered finding a round rod of food

grade plastic and cutting it into 1 " thick " pucks " to put on top of the cabbage.

The problem with that (I think) is that would leave no room for a reservoir of

brine on top. Your design solves that by having the smaller diameter spacer on

top, permitting a reservoir of brine above the bottom part of the dunker. I was

also thinking of using a glass ramekin with a hole drilled in the bottom, but I

haven't found one with dimensions that I like.

What are the dimensions of your dunker? I'm not interested in making them.

Just wondering if yours will work with my jars.

--- In nutrition ,

[Guest guest]

For the record, you are welcome to make them. And call them Dunkers if you

want.

Just don't trademark the name (since I started using it first! I'd have to

come up

with a new name). I think a lot of different people should make them and

sell

them, so people can buy them easily. And more people will ferment vegies.

Mine vary in size depending on what the kiln felt like and how much the clay

stretched, but basically they are about 2 3/4 inches.

Actually I have a bigger size for half gallon jars too, but I've never

perfected

them. Those are a kind of oval with a hole in the middle, which fits under

the

shoulder of the jar.

The problem with flat ones is that they are difficult to get out of the jar.

They need a handle. If I was working in plastic I'd be tempted to use

a lathe. I have made some that were flat, with a " finger hole " in the

middle,

and those aren't too bad to fish out (esp. the ones for half gallon jars)

but

they are hard to make look nice. I'm not sure how the Pickl't people get

theirs out, since they are just flat glass.

However, if you don't mind using plastic, they come with some brands

of kimchi and salted shrimp. They are basically a cup-shape, with little

holes, that fits through the jar opening. So the brine seeps up through

the holes, but the sides keep it down. It only works if there is a certain

amount of brine in the jar, which is usually ok. Plastic floats.

I wanted mine to be heavy, like the ones in the Harsch crock, so that I

could use them for half-full jars too. Actually I also use them for pie

weights

and other misc. stuff around the kitchen.

Ramekins work fine, drilled out or not. The lid holds them down. I think

what would be best is something like the lid of a candle holder or small

pyrex dish, but I never have found anything the right size. I like the

ceramic

better personally: if there was enough demand I think someone should have

a batch made commercially, in a ceramics press.

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 12:43 PM, davidharkness <davidharkness@...>wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> I like the design you came up with. I considered finding a round rod of

> food grade plastic and cutting it into 1 " thick " pucks " to put on top of the

> cabbage. The problem with that (I think) is that would leave no room for a

> reservoir of brine on top. Your design solves that by having the smaller

> diameter spacer on top, permitting a reservoir of brine above the bottom

> part of the dunker. I was also thinking of using a glass ramekin with a

> hole drilled in the bottom, but I haven't found one with dimensions that I

> like.

>

> What are the dimensions of your dunker? I'm not interested in making them.

> Just wondering if yours will work with my jars.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Since I have the Pickl-It jar, I can answer your question.

Their dunkers go in and out of the jar very easily, because

they are a lot smaller than the mouth of the jar. That said,

they are also smaller than the surface of the kraut, so they

do not actually go all the way to the edges. ( They also don't

weigh much )

After reading all the discussion of dunkers, I really like

the whole cabbage leaf idea, and I might try that method in

the future.

Now I have a question. You have mentioned vinegar as part

of your brine formula. Do you think Bragg's raw unfiltered

apple cider vinegar would be okay? It's the only kind I

usually use.

-Bompu

--- In nutrition ,

[Guest guest]

You didn't ask me, but I'll butt-in anyway

I once used Bragg's as a starter for a batch of apple vinegar. (I made some

apple wine and wanted to convert some to vinegar.) The bacteria that convert

ethanol to acetic acid require oxygen. (That is, they are aerobic). On the

other hand, the bacteria you need to ferment vegetables are anaerobic. (They

need an oxygen-free environment.)

I think 's rationale for using a small amount of vinegar is that the acid

creates a favorable environment for the specific anaerobic bacteria we want. If

that is correct, then any good vinegar should work fine. The fact that Bragg's

is a live culture provides no particular advantage because those bacteria are

aerobic. They will quickly die off in the anaerobic conditions of pickling.

But the acid will do its trick whether it's Bragg's or just plain old white

vinegar.

>

> Hi ,

>

> Since I have the Pickl-It jar, I can answer your question.

> Their dunkers go in and out of the jar very easily, because

> they are a lot smaller than the mouth of the jar. That said,

> they are also smaller than the surface of the kraut, so they

> do not actually go all the way to the edges. ( They also don't

> weigh much )

>

> After reading all the discussion of dunkers, I really like

> the whole cabbage leaf idea, and I might try that method in

> the future.

>

> Now I have a question. You have mentioned vinegar as part

> of your brine formula. Do you think Bragg's raw unfiltered

> apple cider vinegar would be okay? It's the only kind I

> usually use.

>

> -Bompu

>

> --- In nutrition ,

[Guest guest]

As far as vinegar, what said. The cabbage doesn't

need added probiotics, but pushing the ferment in the

acid direction can help prevent failures. It's common to boil

the vinegar/salt/water solution anyway, and pour the hot water

over the vegies ... which would kill mold spores on the vegies

and in the jar, but probably not the lactobacilli inside the vegies.

The thing is, SOME probiotics work with vegies. Some just

make the vegies mushy. Hard to know which is which, but

it seems like the ones that " come with " crucifers work just

fine.

The cabbage leaves work just fine. They work better if there

is some spacer to hold them down, because the gas

tends to push them up. You can hold them down by tucking

the edges under the shoulder of the jar, or you can

add something onto the top. But the thing on top doesn't

have to go all the way to the sides, or be heavy. I mean,

a shot-glass can work, or a plastic medicine-cup, or a

baby-food jar. Condiment-cups are usually the best size,

and they are cheap. Like these:

http://www.amazon.com/HIC-Porcelain-1-Ounce-Butter-Crock/dp/B0006BDCXA/ref=pd_si\

m_k_2

If you don't mind plastic, the ones they give out at burger

places are the right size too. You want something with

a maximum diameter of 2 3/4 inches.

On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 7:30 AM, bompu1 <bompu1@...> wrote:

> Hi ,

>

> Since I have the Pickl-It jar, I can answer your question.

> Their dunkers go in and out of the jar very easily, because

> they are a lot smaller than the mouth of the jar. That said,

> they are also smaller than the surface of the kraut, so they

> do not actually go all the way to the edges. ( They also don't

> weigh much )

>

> After reading all the discussion of dunkers, I really like

> the whole cabbage leaf idea, and I might try that method in

> the future.

>

> Now I have a question. You have mentioned vinegar as part

> of your brine formula. Do you think Bragg's raw unfiltered

> apple cider vinegar would be okay? It's the only kind I

> usually use.

>

> -Bompu

>

> --- In nutrition ,

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

wondering why we need to use a tall mason jar and dunkers? why can't I use a

wide bowl with a plate to keep the floaters down?

btw, I use a 2Qt mason jar with a used, clean tamari bottle filled with clean

water as my weight. I put a plastic bag over both tops to keep things from

floating into the brine.

I might just try a wider bowl with a plate for my next batch...... I just tried

" pickle kraut " like what Farmhouse culture makes at our famers markets here.

Sliced cucs with cabbage, seasoned with pickling herbs- garlic, dill, mustard

seed. My son won't eat much plain kraut, but loves pickle kraut.

claire

[Guest guest]

Thanks !

If I used a wide mouth jar-crock-bowl then a plate or dunker to cover, couldn't

I just cover the whole thing with a lid or plastic bag/wrap since it won't

touch the food?

what is the point of an airlock lid? as long as the food stays anaerobic under

the brine, all is good right?

I've also got a question about " pickle " kraut..... I made some with cucs and

cabbage and garlic, dill, mustard seed. But now that it's done, the mustard

seeds are mixed into the kraut (instead of floating around like in pickle juice)

and it's a bit too hot/spicy for our son.... Any thoughts on how to get them

back out of the kraut after a ferment?

thanks!

claire

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