pain management

[Guest guest]

Hello, The lady who coordinates and runs the Cancer Support Group

activities the Cancer Center I am under the care of, is a trained

Hypnotherapist. At the onset of my Diagnosis, I ask her to have a session,

then she ask me to name what I could visualize running thru my veins and

bones, gobboling up and cleaning up all the Cancer cells and destroying

them. Children chose vidio game packman types. I chose a whole flock of

Geney Hens, coursing thru every nook and cranney of my body, pecking and

scratching and cleaning all the cancer and transmutting it from my body. I

play the cassette/meditative tape ofter. Daily in the beginning. Our Minds

are very powerful. We have been taught, we can do anything He could do,

even better. I THINK I can rid my body and bones of Cancer, control pain

and live a healthy life style. The only Pain Rxs I have taken is just after

new Spinal Compression Fractures or new Rib Fractures for not more than 4

days, then the cycle is broken. My Bone Scans/Xrays show continious

healing. My Doctor's are in puzzelment. Light or Deep Hypnosis, from

Professionals, is a good thing. Only good has been produced, as far as my

Proffessional exposure to it. Sincerely, Liz , R.N.,C.O.H.N.,Ret.At

03:48 PM 09/19/1999 -0400, you wrote:

> When all else fails, resort to name calling. Members, make an

>informed decision. Please don't let one person's opinion rob you of the

>opportunity to manage pain without ingesting chemicals. (It's also a

>good way to find out their qualifications if you decide to try it!)

> Visit http://cures for cancer.evangelist.net for cancer info or to

>unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

I know it is a lot of pain for someone suffering from Cancer. I strongly believe that cancer is a result of our diet. It all started when we began eating dead food ( food that is not biogenic or bioactive).

Dead food are like french fries, burger,cooked fish, all types of cooked meat and vegetables and fruits.

When we revert to a living food diet- a diet containing fresh fruits, fresh vegetables, sprouts and wheat grass, we can revert the process and there is a good chance of curing cancer.

Please feel free to try this new diet and tell your friends about it.

Thank you and all the best my new friend.

Regards,

Kumar

Malaysia.

Pain management

When all else fails, resort to name calling.

Members, make an informed decision.

Conduct your OWN search concerning hypnotherapy. Some websites are promoting the owners business but there are many that provide information on this valuable intervention. Please don't let one person's opinion rob you of the opportunity to manage pain without ingesting chemicals.

Hypnotherapists are listed in the yellow pages of your telephone book. There is no charge to call and ask your own questions. (It's also a good way to find out their qualifications if you decide to try it!)

Visit http://cures for cancer.evangelist.net for cancer info or to unsubscribe

[Guest guest]

On Wed, 31 May 2000, Ron Laurie wrote:

> I once found a web site which related to a combination of mainly herbal

> products which was as effective if not more effective than morphine for

> managing pain. (but without the side effects of morphine.)

> Unfortunately, I cannot find the site again. Does anyone know of the

> site?

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just received a newsletter with a few cancer testimonials from an herb

company. Although a product for pain isn't mentioned, there is a

testimonial of cancer remission (which is better than pain control). I

haven't tried their products so I don't know how effective they are. If

any of you plan to try their products, please share your results with this

group.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 17:42:37 -0400 (EDT)

From: newsletter@...

Subject: HHA Newsletter - May 2000

HERBAL HEALER ACADEMY NEWS UPDATE

May 2000

*NOTE: The opinions and views expressed in this private

on-line newsletter are from Marijah McCain ND.

THIS MONTH IN THE NEWS

* HANDLING DEPRESSION, NATURALLY

* 100% NATURAL SUNSCREEN PRODUCTS

* 100% NATURAL TICK AND MOSQUITO GUARD

* DR. CHI'S NEW BOOK

* SOME AWESOME HHA MAY TESTIMONIALS

* 16 PAGE SNAIL MAIL NEWSLETTER - June 2000

* SAVE MONEY & HAVE FUN AT OUR AUCTION ON-LINE

* FREE MEMBER SIGN-UPS ON-LINE

* CATALOG 2000 - Just Keeps Getting Better!

*********************************************

HANDLING DEPRESSION - NATURALLY

First please read the following article to find out why conventional drugs

like Prozac are not an option when working to CURE depression!

http://www.sightings.com/general/pro.htm

I want you to understand something about depression. In most cases it is

not all in your head, like the conventional doctors would have you

believe. It can be caused from many physical problems that go undiagnosed,

like chronic candida, chronic pain, chronic toxic constipation, anemia,

parasites, toxic chemicals in foods, like MSG, Aspartame, etc., chemical

and heavy metal poisonings and other environmental pollutants. It can

also be triggered by a severe upset to the person that causes a toxic

chemical overload on the body, especially the liver. These issues all

need to be addressed in the natural detoxing process. This detoxing

process may take a year or so, but the good news is that you will start to

feel better and better.

Conventional medicine and psychiatry does not address the detoxification

issue and just prescribes more toxic drugs (which in the long run makes

things worse and close to incurable). We have helped thousands of

depressed people by simply helping their bodies get cleaned out and get on

the right nutritional supplements so it will come back into balance,

naturally. Many times the depression is cured when the body has been

detoxed and proper nutrition and daily supplements are added in.

We recommend a Hair Analysis to help determine if there is a heavy metal

or toxic problem that we can target. Details are in the catalog and on

the Internet.

The number one supplement I start all depressed people on is the 4-Herb

Tea. It can be taken in the Liquid Concentrate form - 1 tablespoon in

water twice a day or the Bulk herbs made from scratch - 2 ounces in water

twice per day. This can safely be taken with all current prescription

drugs. This must be used daily for at least 4 months. This will help

detox the liver and increase energy. Also take one tablet of HHA Iron Plus

daily with dinner. Many of my patients that complained of lethargy, low

energy and fatigue are actually anemic. Many times men are very surprised

that the simple tablet of Iron Plus helps them feel so much better. I use

St. 's Wort in the day - 2 caps 2-3 times a day. In cases where the

person cannot sleep, I recommend Melatonin at night. We have a great

product called HHA CHILL OUT and this is exceptional for anyone with

anxiety. It is safe and provides nutritional support for your nerves and

body as well as herbs to take the edge off! If there is a weight problem,

and many times there is, I use the Herbal 5000 supplement. Panic attack

patients should carry a bottle of Rescue Remedy and use that anytime there

is anxiety. Since everyone is different, I would prefer members to e-mail

me so I can help you with your personal situation. Products listed are

onsale at:

http://www.herbalhealer.com/monthly.html

SUMMER NATURAL NECESSITIES

100% Natural Sun Screen and Tanning Products. Chemical over the counter

sunscreens have toxic chemicals that are absorbed by your skin. Check out

this outstanding line of all naturals:

http://www.herbalhealer.com/natskin.html

TICK GUARD

All natural, 4 oz. pump sprayer to repel fleas, ticks and mosquitoes.

Can be safely sprayed on skin. (Jungle Juice was discontinued by the

manufacturer) 4 oz. pump spray bottle - $9.95 - Summer Specials page

DR. CHI'S NEW BOOK

Dr. Chi has just published a new book called Dr. Chi's Herbal Formulas. I

had the honor of writing a forward in there about my experience working

with Dr. Chi and his products. I would like you to know that Dr. Chi

really is a true Master of Healing and that all the Chinese formulas that

he provides directly from China have proven very effective.

I have had the honor of being examined by Dr. Chi and I have to tell you

this funny story. He is able to see cancer and all kinds of ailments

using simply the fingernail and the tongue examination as his diagnostic

tool. Well, of course I was a little nervous, being examined by him, but

I will never forget his words to me as long as I live.

" Ahhh, Dr. McCain, no cancer, no disease you are just too fat! "

Currently we do not carry every item listed in his book, but we will get

them in for you and add them in to our lineup if you decide to try them.

So anything he has written about will be available for you.

The Dr. Chi's Herbal Formulas book is 200 pages and sells for $25.00. I

recommend this to all the students and ND graduates of Herbal Healer and

anyone else who may have a serious health challenge. I have done extensive

studies in Oriental techniques and medicine and I have the greatest

respect for this knowledge and wisdom handed down for generations.

http://www.herbalhealer.com/drchi.html

SOME TESTIMONIALS FROM MAY

CANCER IN TOTAL REMISSION!

Naturopathic Education Pays Off! * May 2000

" Dr. McCain, I had to let you know how our daughter's Medical checkup came

out last week at the Oncologist. (NonHodgkins Lymphoma) Those who don't

believe that Naturopathics work will find this interesting. I told you

that they found so many new Polyps that they couldn't get the endo. tube

down to her stomach. These developed " after " the radiation treatments.

They took an enormous amount of the polyp tissue to use for biopsies.

Every one of the new polyps were benign! The doctor was absolutely

stumped. He does know I am an ND & that our daughter is taking natural

products & herbs. He has no problem with this. I only wish I had a camera

to take a photo of his facial expression & our daughter's, when he read

those results. He told us, " Your daughter's cancer is in full remission. "

Thank God for the herbs He provides and to Herbal Healer Academy for my

education. Yes, people, they work! " ~ Regards, Dr. C. G, ND - HHA Graduate

CHRONIC VAGINAL DISCHARGE FINALLY CURED * May 2000

" Dr. McCain - I wanted to let you know that I have been taking the HHA

Mycostat tablets and the HHA Oregano Oil Plus capsules and it has worked

wonders on me. I used to go from doctor to doctor trying to figure out why

I had a slight vaginal discharge, they all said nothing was wrong with me,

it was normal. Then I found one doctor that told me it was a constant

(mild) yeast infection and said unless it got worse there was nothing they

could do. I am so happy it's finally gone, it actually only took a couple

of days to get rid of. Thank you very much! " ~ D.L. HHA Member since 1998

LARGE IMMOVABLE TUMOR 85% GONE! - May 2000

" We used the HHA 4-Herb Tea and the Montana Yew Tips. Dose is 2 ounces

three times a day. A large, hard, immovable tumor under rib cage for 13

years. Husband was unable to lay flat for long, due to difficulty

breathing for past 2 1/2 years. After taking the 4-Herb tea for 3 days,

my husband stated that he felt it was getting smaller. After one week he

said he had much more energy and after 2 1/2 weeks he was able to go to

bed and sleep all night without any difficulty breathing. He is like a

new person. I am a nurse and when I first palpated it under his rib cage

it was so large it extended from the xiphoid to above the diaphragm. I

would now estimate it has decreased 85%. I also have taken the tea twice

a day, have had no side effects, and see increased healing in skin

irritations, that have been chronic. My hair is also getting fuller! As a

medical person,I can not deny what I have seen. I have recommended this

tea to many friends, neighbors and relatives. It is amazing. Thank you

for your contribution to the health & welfare of humanity. " ~Nurse J.D.

HHA Member

PARASITE CLEANSE * May 2000

" I used Intestinal Freedom capsules and HHA anti-parasite tincture. I had

chronic chest pain, gas, sluggish bowels, malabsorption of foods and

nutrients and very low energy. Thank you...thank you...thank you! >From

the first dropper of tincture I could feel my system correcting itself. On

the fourth day I passed some peculiar things? I have been dealing with

the chest tightness for 3 years now and had reached a crisis point. I am

doing so much better, my intestines are less swollen and tender and they

are working properly for the first time I can remember in my life.

Conventional doctors gave me an EKG and found nothing... they offered no

help...as has been my experience lifelong. " ~ C. R. HHA Member

We have a current testimonial page on line at:

http://www.herbalhealer.com/atestimonial.html

16 PAGE SNAIL MAIL NEWS OUT IN JUNE

Members, watch for the snail mail newsletter which should arrive around

June 15th. Leading article on the importance of understanding what's

going on with the epidemic of candida infections and natural solutions,

Another one of Dr. McCain's Rants, The Future of Naturopathy and how Dr.

McCain would vote in the Presidential Elections and why and much more...

DON'T MISS THE DAILY AUCTION ON-LINE

Do you know that we are the only natural medicine and supply auction in

the world!!! If you like a deal and enjoy the fun of auctions then don't

miss our on-line auction at: http://www.herbalhealerauction.com

FREE MEMBER SIGN UPS ON-LINE

Tell all your friends that may be interested in receiving a membership.

This is a $20.00 value and is FREE right now. Please only sign up once.

If you are a member please don't use the new sign up area. If you get our

snail mail newsletters and postcards you are already a member.

http://www.herbalhealer.com/mbrrgs.html

2000 CATALOG

We will send a FREE catalog out to any member with an order. We no longer

can afford to send them out to members that do not support us. They are

expensive to make and to send.

CHANGES IN THE NEW 2000 CATALOG

~ Updated ailments and 3 month protocol pages

~ Urinalysis - Home testing plus custom vitamins

~ Dr. Chi's formulations and ingredients list

~ All HHA Products have ingredients listed

~ CMO has price reduction to $59.95

~ MSG, Aspartame & Radiation Detox pages

~ Some prices have been adjusted

~ Herbal Tinctures are now available in 1, 2, 4 and 8 ounce sizes.

~ 96 pages! We just keep getting better!

Note: On-line newsletters are not the same as the snail-mail news. Snail

mail newsletters are paid subscription and/or mailed free to our current

supporting members. The on-line newsletters are free for anyone. You can

change your e-mail address and read all the past archived on-line

newsletters at:

http://www.herbalhealer.com/news.html

Dr. Marijah McCain ND*

HERBAL HEALER ACADEMY

'Healing the World with Nature, One Person and ONE PET at a Time!'

* Dr. title void where prohibited - State of Arkansas - see:

http://www.arkleg.state.ar.us/ftproot/acts/1999/htm/act338.htm

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[Guest guest]

Ron,

I don't know exactly which site you are referring to, but Essiac tea is

effective with pain control......so much so, that patients on the essiac did

not have to take narcotics etc. You might want to look at

www.essiac-info.org . I do not know if this is the site that you are talking

about, but it has plenty of links with testimonials. Also, you may want to

get a book on the subject......I currently have all of them, I

think.............Hope this was of some help.................Belinda

In a message dated 05/30/2000 11:59:18 PM Central Daylight Time,

rjl@... writes:

<< I once found a web site which related to a combination of mainly herbal

products which was as effective if not more effective than morphine for

managing pain. (but without the side effects of morphine.)

Unfortunately, I cannot find the site again. Does anyone know of the

site?

Ron Laurie

>>

[Guest guest]

I have been to a physiatrist (pain management doctor); however, I was

wondering if anyone knows if there is a difference between a physiatrist and

a " pain clinic " , or if they are basically one in the same. The physiatrist

has referred me to a psychiatrist who only treats people with issues dealing

with pain management, including cancer and AIDS patients.

S.

[Guest guest]

It was written:

<.......Current research in pain indicates that the most succesful approach

to managing chronic pain is one involving cognitive-behavioural treatment.

I believe a recent paper from New Zealand (Otago University I think - sorry,

can't recall the details) showed cognitive-behavioural therapy to be more

successful than exercise in improving chronic pain.

In our Physiotherapy practice we use exercise in combination with a

cognitive-behavioural approach in working with rehab patients who show signs

of fear-avoidance and perceive themselves to be disabled. My feeling is

that a combination of both is likely to be most successful. >

** Regarding the chronic pain management, I want to describe just two

cases from my experience in training my mental technique.

One of my students suffered from back pain resulting from his

scoliosis. He could not sit in the same position for longer than 3-4

minutes; he had problems with long-distance driving, and so on. He

took expensive massage which was effective just to some extent. I

trained him in overcoming the pain through my mental technique which

is completely based on Pavlovian classical conditioning through the

second signal system; it was in December. A few days ago, he told me

that his pain had gone completely since the time of training. He did not

even apply self-regulation methods that I had trained him in at that time.

[Note that some of Dr Stefanishin's work was described in the book:

Ostrander & Schroeder " Superlearning 2000 " Mel Siff]

But the more interesting result with pain management which I obtained on Sunday

with

another student who suffered from chronic pain resulted by an injury in

last summer. He broken his foot where it connects to the bone of his leg

(I do not know the names of these bones in English), he underwent few surgical

procedures, but the only way to stop this pain is claimed to be further surgery.

But after that, he will not be able to move his foot much at all, to run - and

he

does not want that, of course.

I was able to train him how to remove this pain completely and how to to produce

full

pain control when pain is at its maximum. I have been in contact with him by

phone since Sunday. This pain has not gone completely. It appears again,

usually, at the end of his working day. He works as a construction worker

and is on his feet all time. Nevertheless, he was able to remove it

in a few minutes by undertaking all steps of my technique. On Thursday, I

trained him to remove this pain in 7-10 seconds. To check his ability to remove

the pain in such a short period of time, I induced very strong pain, and after

that, he

removed that completely by himself.

Besides that, we undertook some steps to reduce his inflammation in

the foot, which causes this pain. To get the full control of his

pain, I trained him also to produce pain in any region of his body. I

believe that we can talk about full pain management if a person

is able not only to remove his pain, but also develop it by his own will.

I realize that, at least, 99% of this group will be skeptical about

that. Moreover, my training is completely based on Pavlovian

classical conditioning, which is a Russian " product " and has nothing

in common with cognitive-behavioral approach. So, you have all

reasons not to trust. But the pain has gone, you know.

Vladimir N Stefanishin

Salt Lake City, UT, USA

http://www.proself.com

mind@...

[Guest guest]

----- Original Message -----

From: " Jefferson lanneau " <jlanneau@...>

Hi again Jeff

I do really know what you are talking about and the frustration you feel at

times. I noticed you mentioned your age as 61. So I guess that both of us

are older than dirt as I am the same age. Though somedays I look and feel

like I am 161.

I can remember a discussion members of the original RISG group had about AS,

etc. and the evidence for it found in Egyptian mummies and now of course

mummies even older. (The ones found frozen in ice high in the Alps). We also

talked about the prevelence of Spony's in certain ethnic and other

communities.

The incidence of these diseases has always interested me, as they do not

occur in a great number of the population. I forget the exact number and

ratio, but in this area of Southern Alberta their tends to be a cluster of

it. In a town of 350 people, 3 of us have AS, one of those is a female and

our next door neighbour. Of course the doctor's used to say it couldn't be

AS as that never happens in women. Hah!!!! They have been proven to be

wrong too many times.

Hang in there

+Dave

AS/RS/RA/PA/Parkinson's/CML (in remission at the moment)

Older than dirt.

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 21/04/2002

[Guest guest]

Hello, I am one of those 20% you mentioned in you email. I have had it for

over 30 years, started with ulcerative colitis. All I know is that the

medical field is way back in the dark ages when it comes to managing the pain

of this stuff. I hate to go to a new Dr, they all start out the same, you're

a drug seeker. Then you have to go through months of tests, that is while

you're fighting with the insurance to cover your visits and meds. Then they

have to go through your PCP no matter if he was the one who sent you to the

specialist in the first place. All the while your meds are running out and

cant get an approval, yet. The pharmacy gets tired of you asking if they

have news yet. The Dr. thinks up some more blood tests to take, and never do

any of them read what your previous Dr. diagnosed or how they treated it.

Sometimes I want to give up, but GOD continues to remind me of the blessing I

have of children and grandchildren to love and enjoy. I just miss my life.

I have six grown children and four grandchildren, and had thirty-six foster

children. I had a great life going for quite sometime over those thirty some

years, but now it's gotten to only TV and some good days working in my small

garden and visiting with my grandchildren if I'm not too tired. I went to

two Dr. appts., had blood drawn and x-rays done yesterday, stopped and got

milk, then I was wiped out, came home and dropped on the couch. Today I'm in

so much pain, and still no pain meds, the real kind, that I'm just about

ready to scream too. The fools don't get it, they just keep putting it off.

Do they think it's all going to go away if I run out of all my meds? If I

didn't take Celexa, I am tempted to take the big trip. But I have an open

perscription for those, thank GOD. But I do know what you mean, it is crazy

trying to open someones eyes that it's no a hang nail we're talking about, it

really hurts!! Good luck in your search. EFD

[Guest guest]

From: <Efdavidson@...>

> The fools don't get it, they just keep putting it off.

> Do they think it's all going to go away if I run out of all my meds?

I have a parishioner that changed doctors this week and received some very

bad news. She had breast cancer, had the surgery but the Cancer is in her

bones and I fear her head. The new doctor told her point blank that she

will be definitely blessed if she lives out this year.

She has been having mild to moderate pain but her former doctor refused to

give her more than 4 percocet a day. Some days, like me she does not need

any but others are a different story. I could not for the life of me think

a doctor in their right mind would not deny some one with terminal cancer,

to ease the pain. I urged her to see another doctor fast. She did that

yesterday.

Could you all pray for Judith C. (Judy). Judy is quite resigned to the

fact, that barring a miracle from God, that she will die in the next few

months.

+Dave

AS/RS/RA/PA/Parkinson's/CML (in remission at the moment)

Older than dirt.

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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[Guest guest]

> Could you all pray for Judith C. (Judy). Judy is quite resigned to the

> fact, that barring a miracle from God, that she will die in the next few

> months.

>

>I will certainly keep Judy in my praryers.

Judi in Ohio AS/Uveitis/HLAB27+

[Guest guest]

Dear Judi,

This is under the heading of Pain Management. You want prayers for Judy

C.

and she believes that she is going to die within the next few month. Now,

it is May and its going to become summer soon. Does she live alone, how old

is she, and what are her needs? Medically, emotionally, spiritually? I am a

disability advocate, and an adult advocate. Please inform your friend that

she need not be so down. Life is worth living even if it is in pain. I am

highly concerned about this, and please pass this on to your friend.

I would be truly grateful if you would let me know at least to e- mail

her. We sometimes think we want to stop our pain by stopping living. I have

been there.

Maybe I can give her some avenues she can find to help her. I will pray for

her and hopeful she will become better as we go along.

Regards, Brieallen@...

another Judy ( Judith)

[Guest guest]

" ......When he couldn't knock down the pain he sent me to a great

pain clinic. They worked on me for some time as well before settling

on a regimen just for me. We all have gone through an awful lot that

others ....

Hi Carole,

I am looking for a pain management doctor and having difficulty

finding one. Every " Pain Management " practice/clinic/doctor I've

called say they only do injections. I have not been able to find a

Pain Management doctor who works with medication. Would you mind

telling me what kind of doctor you are working with?

Thanks for your help,

[Guest guest]

,

I must tell you, that when I started Pain Clinic, I did go through the

injections, and all sorts of things while trying to find the right fit. I even

had

cryogenic injections! They were the best, but that doctor moved away. I

belonged to the Pain Clinic at my hospital for literally a few years......tried

acupuncture, too. Now I am more in the hands of my primary care doctor and a

good neuro guy. They are both young and very up on the latest meds. I wish I

had a quicker route for you. However, I would join a reputable clinic with

xrays in hand and talk with them. Most are very kind people. They well might

decide that you need exactly what you want: meds that will help. That really

would be my advice. I do hope that you find relief!

Carole

[Guest guest]

Hm, I briefly rented a house from a writer for the Boston Globe. I guess I

could ask if he's interested...

I don't believe I'm saying this; I'm usually not this bold. He liked us

though...

pain management

Does anyone know a writer at a major paper? I bet someone would like to

write a story on the " other side " of OxyContin, etc, and we could sure

provide some people to interview just from this site.

[Guest guest]

When I was first prescribed an antidepressant for chronic pain, the doctor told

me that the pain relief property is a secondary effect and they don't know why

it works the way it does. The dosage is generally much smaller than would be

prescribed for depression, and its aim is simply to help control pain. (Though

of course if you're also depressed, the antidepressant dose given for that could

help with the pain as well.) For me it (Elavil) feels like a muscle relaxant,

and I have read that its mechanism is similar the the relaxant Flexeril.

At any rate, it can be good medicine for chronic muscle and tendon pain, which

is something I think most of us have had to some extent.

pain management

i concur 5000%. Absolutely try and find pain management that works because

life is not easy and definitely dangerous when you make decisions to have

surgery in the throws of excruciating pain and depression. my golden rules

are: Get 3 opinions from 3 qualified revision surgeons; Find a pain

management doctor. don't be suprised that when doctors treat pain they will

prescribe an anti-depressant as well as it enhances the benefits of pain

medication. Last but not least, pray.

wishing you many peaceful moments

TwistedSister in NJ

1982 Scoliosis Harrington fusion, 1998 Revision A/P Surgery for Flatback

Syndrome, 1998 Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, 1999 Degenrative SI Joints,

2000 Weight Loss Surgery, 2000 Spinal Hardware Removed, 2001 Cervical

bulging discs, 2002 Arachnoiditis, 2002 GERD, 2002 Adhesions, 1993 Mitral

Valve Prolapse, 1996 Fibromyalgia, 2001 Kidney Stones,

2003 Interstitial Cystitis, May 2003 Anterior spine hardware removal

** LIFE IS UNCERTAIN.............EAT DESSERT FIRST **

Harrington Rod scoliosis people and other post-op multiple spine surgery

people may interested in the following website dedicated to Flatback

Syndrome and revision/salvage spine surgery... " Salvaged Sisters of

Scoliosis " website on Delphi Forums at:

http://forums.delphiforums.com/adultscoliosis/messages

Support for scoliosis-surgery veterans with Harrington Rod Malalignment

Syndrome. Not medical advice. Group does not control ads or endorse any

advertised products.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi All,

I was prescribed Pamelor, another anti-depressant, as part of my Pain Mgmt.

program a few months ago. My Pain doc said that there have been studies that the

anti-depressants help boost the effects of the OxyContin. He also (half

jokingly!) said, " If I believed all the studies that pass across my desk, my

pain patients would be taking so many pills they'd have to have Palm Pilots to

keep track of their meds!! Lucky for my pain patients, I don't believe half of

the 'crap' that gets published! I trust my chronic pain patients to tell me

exactly how they're feeling, how their med regime is working for them, and I

prescribe accordingly. " Any wonder why I trust my doc??!!

When, after a month, the Pamelor didn't seem to be doing anthing but give me

horrible dry-mouth, he D/C'd it. He asked me if I wanted to try another

anti-depressant (like Elavil or something) I said " No thanks...I'll stick with

the old program. " A good Pain Management doctor is one who listens to his

patients. I am a highly vocal proponent of Pain Management, be it pre or post

revision for Flatback (HARMS) sufferers. While the revision surgeries may help

us regain better posture (i.e. give us back some of the lumbar lordosis that we

were unknowingly robbed of with the old Harrington rod procedures) and help us

stand us a bit straighter, the mechanics of our spines has forever been altered

by this beast of a deformity. Pain Management, GOOD CHRONIC PAIN MANAGEMENT,

allows us to function at a higher level without being so " gorked " that we don't

know our own names!!

I had the unfortunate experience of going to another so-called Pain Mgmt. doctor

prior to finding my current physician. I had not done my research on Pain

Management for Flatback well enough before I went to see him so I blindly

accepted everything he told me. BIG MISTAKE...REALLY BIG MISTAKE!!! That doctor

should have his medical license revoked!! He had me on so much medication that

there were times when I would " zone-out " in the middle of a conversation and was

falling asleep at the supper table. My husband and son were so worried about me

that, without my knowledge, they went to see this doctor themselves. They told

him how weird and gorked I was and insisted that he wean me off the meds. You'd

have to know how protective my husband and son are where I'm concerned...they've

been through 2 revision procedures with me and their Irish tempers flare up

quickly when it comes to 'Momma'!! Long story short, that doctor had the

" you-know-whats " to drop me as a patient!! My family got me through the 3 weeks

it took to get off all the wacky meds he had had me on...from high doses of

Hydro-Morphone to some mind altering drug called Clonopin (sp?) It was a

horrible withdrawl!! Not to gross anybody out but I had everything from diarrhea

and vomiting to violent shaking!! It was horrible to go through and horrible for

my famaily to see!! When I was thinking clearly again, I immediately reported

that doctor to the AMA and started doing research on Pain Management. That's

when I found my current doctor and have stayed with him for 3 years. My doctor

immediately contacted my Ortho surgeon and got as much info as he could about

Flatback and the type of surgeries I had gone through. He also did research on

the Internet and read Mina's web site on Flatback Syndrome as I was

the first patient he had ever treated who had Flatback!! When I found out how

much research my doctor had done on Flatback, I KNEW I HAD FOUND A WINNER!!

Together, we have set up a regime of meds that have allowed me to have a much

better quality of life which should be the primary goal of any GOOD Pain

Managemtn program.

Again, I can't emphasize enough how important it is to do your homeowrk before

you put your life...and your family's lives...in the hands of a Pain doctor!!!

Good pain control, under a qualified physician, can be a life changing choice

for Flatback sufferers!! I urge anyone who is having difficuly managing their

life due to pain from Flatback to find a Pain Management physician and get on a

pain management regime. It can really enhance your quality of life...and isn't

that what we're all striving for??!!

All the best,

Beth

[Guest guest]

Hi Lyndol. I've lots of experience with pain management. I've been doing it

for about 3 years now. Narcotics can be very helpful at restoring some

function, but you've just got to be careful, Lyndol. I can't say that enough.

How old

are you? And where's your pain the worst? How bad on a scale of 1 to 10? What

they've discovered is that narcotics can cause low testosterone levels in

men, and osteoporosis in men and women. Start out as low as you can go. There's

also non-opioid medications that may help you such as neurontin, which inhibits

the pain signal from the nerve by keeping it from going on auto-fire. You

might also try some careful stretching. It may be painful at first, but can

help.

Yoga type stuff. Anti-inflamatories also might help but can be hard on the

liver and stomach. There is a device that I believe is called an " inter-thecal

catheter " which is a small tube placed next to your spine at the pain point

where it delivers a " much smaller " dose of medication by means of a small

battery

operated pump place under your skin in the abdominal area. The medication is

refilled once a month or so. This might be a good option for you Lyndol. The

bottom line here though is the " less " pain meds the better your overall health,

and your outlook on life. But that's affected by pain too. You need to find

your own balance. Just don't let yourself be put on a bunch of medications and

sent home. You have options. If I can help, let me know. Take care, Des

[Guest guest]

Des...

Feb 24th right? Are you ready? Ive had my blood work, ekg, blood donations,

last surgeon visit, and will fill out paperwork, and go for a brace casting on

Friday. I'll be right behind you all the way...Feb 25th. Jan

Re: Pain Management

Hi Lyndol. I've lots of experience with pain management. I've been doing it

for about 3 years now. Narcotics can be very helpful at restoring some

function, but you've just got to be careful, Lyndol. I can't say that enough.

How old

are you? And where's your pain the worst? How bad on a scale of 1 to 10? What

they've discovered is that narcotics can cause low testosterone levels in

men, and osteoporosis in men and women. Start out as low as you can go.

There's

also non-opioid medications that may help you such as neurontin, which

inhibits

the pain signal from the nerve by keeping it from going on auto-fire. You

might also try some careful stretching. It may be painful at first, but can

help.

Yoga type stuff. Anti-inflamatories also might help but can be hard on the

liver and stomach. There is a device that I believe is called an " inter-thecal

catheter " which is a small tube placed next to your spine at the pain point

where it delivers a " much smaller " dose of medication by means of a small

battery

operated pump place under your skin in the abdominal area. The medication is

refilled once a month or so. This might be a good option for you Lyndol. The

bottom line here though is the " less " pain meds the better your overall

health,

and your outlook on life. But that's affected by pain too. You need to find

your own balance. Just don't let yourself be put on a bunch of medications and

sent home. You have options. If I can help, let me know. Take care, Des

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I have had cortisone epidurals, then I had one in the hospital that

they did under a flourascope, then I had one that I can't remember

what it was called - couldn't bend for three months (or turn). Plus

accupuncture (this really helped when combined with electrical stim),

hypnosis...and the usual that you mentioned...anything that will

work...

I am sorry that your hands are killing you. I find that salt makes

mine way worse. I cut salt totally out of my diet -I get enough just

by prepared foods without adding them. It really helped - when we

eat out and there is salt in the food, the next morning my hands are

so much worse that I can hardly move them. Do you find anything like

that?

in AZ

>

>

> I would like to know what different pain management therapies you

> tried and what success you had.

>

> I have had SI joint injections, physical therapy, massage therapy.

> The SI injections worked but for a short time.

>

> Today my hands are killing me. They are stiff. Hope the days gets

> better.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the reply ,

Why did you have cortisone epidurals?. What is your diagnosis and how

is your back now?

I have not noticed that salt triggers pain, however I rarely use

salt. I will keep a log of what I ate the day before I have pain to

see if I can spot something in food that might cause a flare.

> >

> >

> > I would like to know what different pain management therapies you

> > tried and what success you had.

> >

> > I have had SI joint injections, physical therapy, massage

therapy.

> > The SI injections worked but for a short time.

> >

> > Today my hands are killing me. They are stiff. Hope the days gets

> > better.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hi

You know I had to do the exact same thing with the salt! I used to be a

saltaholic, salted pizza, salted salt, you name it. I don't salt anything

anymore, and like you, if I eat something with a lot of salt-whether I can taste

it or not-my hands and feet are extra swollen in the am. That's how I figured

out there is a heck of a lot of sodium in Szechuan Shrimp! Cary

[Guest guest]

Hi

I have bulging discs in my back and have also severe hip problems

(along with the ra in my spine). They were hoping to take care of

the pain. It didn't really work. When I really look at it

critically the most pain relief that I have received has been from

the acupuncture with the e-stim attached to the little needles. Mind

over matter helps...but only to a point and then the old body just

takes over...

Let me know if the salt makes a difference to you. I always notice

when we eat out because restaurants salt the food. Abbe and I don't

salt food so when we do eat out, I am always stiff and very sore the

next day.

in AZ

> > >

> > >

> > > I would like to know what different pain management therapies

you

> > > tried and what success you had.

> > >

> > > I have had SI joint injections, physical therapy, massage

> therapy.

> > > The SI injections worked but for a short time.

> > >

> > > Today my hands are killing me. They are stiff. Hope the days

gets

> > > better.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

Hi Cary - it is so nice to find out that we are not alone in this,

isn't it! I found out about salt by trial and error.....watch out

for Scampi too...I have learned to deal with it though. Watch out

for all chinese food - there is an enormous amount of salt in it.

Abbe and the kids love it and we have to limit it because of my

hands.

in AZ

> Hi

> You know I had to do the exact same thing with the salt! I used to

be a saltaholic, salted pizza, salted salt, you name it. I don't

salt anything anymore, and like you, if I eat something with a lot of

salt-whether I can taste it or not-my hands and feet are extra

swollen in the am. That's how I figured out there is a heck of a lot

of sodium in Szechuan Shrimp! Cary

[Guest guest]

I have noticed one interesting thing about salt. When I grab a handful of salt

the palm of my hand will hurt and burn for a while. It is quite annoying.

lisaplumeria <lisamolino@...> wrote:

Hi

I have bulging discs in my back and have also severe hip problems

(along with the ra in my spine). They were hoping to take care of

the pain. It didn't really work. When I really look at it

critically the most pain relief that I have received has been from

the acupuncture with the e-stim attached to the little needles. Mind

over matter helps...but only to a point and then the old body just

takes over...

Let me know if the salt makes a difference to you. I always notice

when we eat out because restaurants salt the food. Abbe and I don't

salt food so when we do eat out, I am always stiff and very sore the

next day.

in AZ

> > >

> > >

> > > I would like to know what different pain management therapies

you

> > > tried and what success you had.

> > >

> > > I have had SI joint injections, physical therapy, massage

> therapy.

> > > The SI injections worked but for a short time.

> > >

> > > Today my hands are killing me. They are stiff. Hope the days

gets

> > > better.

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

,

I'm sure you will hear from others who may have had more recent surgery than

mine. However, I would like to help, if possible. The transition from I.V.

pump to oral meds is never easy. Your wife needs to be very specific with

those caring for her in terms of her pain. It also sounds as though she needs

to get out of bed. Isn't that an awful answer? I don't mean she should

never be in bed but, believe it or not, she is probably close to discharge

anyway. As for comfort in bed or anywhere else, lamb's wool (even synthetic),

pillows, egg crates, or all, could be of help to her. In the hospital, they

should provide some help. If she is going home, you could prepare her " space "

for her. But, between naps, TV, etc., she does need to walk around a bit.

I am not a doctor, or a medical person. I have had surgery from T6 to L5.

I hurt for your wife, and would really like to help!

Sincerely,

Carole M.

P.S. She also should not be afraid to take strong narcotics during this

period.