pain management

[Guest guest]

Hi Izarah,

Prescription muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories, hot showers, a

memory foam mattress topper on my bed, and the rare times my hubby

gives me a back rub are the only things I can think of.

Where is your country?

loriann

>

> Happy Weekend Everyone,

> I wanted to throw a question out there in scoliosis cyber-space about

> pain control and find out what others may be using to help with

> Flatback and other wonderful complications due to Scoliosis.

> Currently I am taking Tylenol 3 along with Naproxen. I was taking the

> T-3s with Morphine but was not getting any relief. Not that this

> cocktail is any better....

> Is there a drug that actually helps with the pain?

> After chatting with two wonderful ladies on here who actually live in

> my country (lol) I am serioulsy considering surgery to help with

> Flatback. But in the meantime, I may end up waiting upwards of a year

> before surgery can happen and some pain relief would be nice.

> Any suggestions ( doesn't all have to be meds) would be appreicated.

> Thanks everyone.

> Izarah

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your suggestions. I live in Canada.loriann262000 <lcmelko@...> wrote: Hi Izarah,Prescription muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories, hot showers, amemory foam mattress topper on my bed, and the rare times my hubbygives me a back rub are the only things I can think of. Where is your country?loriann>> Happy Weekend Everyone,> I wanted to throw a question out there in scoliosis cyber-space about > pain control and find out what others may be using to help with > Flatback and other wonderful complications due to Scoliosis.> Currently I am taking Tylenol 3 along with Naproxen. I was taking the > T-3s with Morphine but was not getting any relief. Not that this > cocktail is any better....> Is there a drug that actually helps with the pain? > After chatting with two wonderful ladies on here who actually live in > my country (lol) I am serioulsy considering surgery to help with > Flatback. But in the meantime, I may end up waiting upwards of a year > before surgery can happen and some pain relief would be nice.> Any suggestions ( doesn't all have to be meds) would be appreicated.> Thanks everyone.>

Izarah>An awkward morning is always better than a boring night....

The fish are biting.

Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

[Guest guest]

Since 1998, when my flatback first became intolerable, I believe I have

been on just about every oral narcotic known to humankind. My situation

was probably somewhat different from yours, inasmuch as I could not

tolerate any dosage high enough to control my pain. I already had a

neuro condition, narcolepsy, which caused me to have sudden sleep

attacks. This was fairly well controlled with drugs used to treat

narcolepsy -- until I added the oral pain meds to the brew. I would

have sudden, embarrassing, and even dangerous sleep attacks in

restaurants, meetings at my child's school, even in a booth at a public

rest room.

Eventually, after extensive surgery to correct my flatback which did

not really help my pain, my revision surgeon referred me to another

neurosurgeon who implants morphine pumps. The pump-surgeon felt I was

just about the ideal candidate for a pump. I went through a standard

pre-pump protocol including psychological evaluation and testing plus

an inpatient trial of morphine vs. placebo, delivered via a catheter

inserted in my spine. I did not know what I was getting in the catheter

until after the test. I had an excellent response to two different 2-mg

doses of morphine sulfate and no response at all to two doses of

placebo. At this point we decided to go ahead with the pump

implantation.

The pump is a Medtronic Synchromed II implanted on one side of my

abdomen, with a catheter running around to the intrathecal space. A

programmed dosage of morphine is delivered 'round the clock to my

spinal canal. The medication goes directly to where it is needed in the

spine, with only a minuscule amount eventually entering my systemic

circulation or reaching the brain, so that the effect on my narcolepsy

is minimal. My pain relief is good, and it is especially helpful to

wake up with my pain under better control. Before I had the pump, I

sometimes could not get out of bed till noon, even to empty my bladder -

it took that long for me to get myself medicated with pills. I also

have a handheld device that allows me to give myself an extra bolus of

morphine for breakthrough pain. The handheld Patient Therapy Manager

(PTM) is basically a reconditioned Palm with a telemetry head that

communicates with my pump when I hold it in the right spot.

I have encountered only one other person here at the Feisty group who

has had a pump implanted for pain, although I belong to another group

called the Pumpsters which has hundreds of members, many of them with

various spinal problems. I recommend the pump very highly to anyone

with intractable pain. Although I remain disabled for work

and " normal " " life, the life that does remain to me is so much more

livable with the pump than with anything else I have tried through the

years.

Best,

- In , " izarahstar "

<izarahstar@...> wrote:

>

> Happy Weekend Everyone,

> I wanted to throw a question out there in scoliosis cyber-space about

> pain control and find out what others may be using to help with

> Flatback and other wonderful complications due to Scoliosis.

> Currently I am taking Tylenol 3 along with Naproxen. I was taking the

> T-3s with Morphine but was not getting any relief. Not that this

> cocktail is any better....

> Is there a drug that actually helps with the pain?

> After chatting with two wonderful ladies on here who actually live in

> my country (lol) I am serioulsy considering surgery to help with

> Flatback. But in the meantime, I may end up waiting upwards of a year

> before surgery can happen and some pain relief would be nice.

> Any suggestions ( doesn't all have to be meds) would be appreicated.

> Thanks everyone.

> Izarah

>

[Guest guest]

Since 1998, when my flatback first became intolerable, I believe I have

been on just about every oral narcotic known to humankind. My situation

was probably somewhat different from yours, inasmuch as I could not

tolerate any dosage high enough to control my pain. I already had a

neuro condition, narcolepsy, which caused me to have sudden sleep

attacks. This was fairly well controlled with drugs used to treat

narcolepsy -- until I added the oral pain meds to the brew. I would

have sudden, embarrassing, and even dangerous sleep attacks in

restaurants, meetings at my child's school, even in a booth at a public

rest room.

Eventually, after extensive surgery to correct my flatback which did

not really help my pain, my revision surgeon referred me to another

neurosurgeon who implants morphine pumps. The pump-surgeon felt I was

just about the ideal candidate for a pump. I went through a standard

pre-pump protocol including psychological evaluation and testing plus

an inpatient trial of morphine vs. placebo, delivered via a catheter

inserted in my spine. I did not know what I was getting in the catheter

until after the test. I had an excellent response to two different 2-mg

doses of morphine sulfate and no response at all to two doses of

placebo. At this point we decided to go ahead with the pump

implantation.

The pump is a Medtronic Synchromed II implanted on one side of my

abdomen, with a catheter running around to the intrathecal space. A

programmed dosage of morphine is delivered 'round the clock to my

spinal canal. The medication goes directly to where it is needed in the

spine, with only a minuscule amount eventually entering my systemic

circulation or reaching the brain, so that the effect on my narcolepsy

is minimal. My pain relief is good, and it is especially helpful to

wake up with my pain under better control. Before I had the pump, I

sometimes could not get out of bed till noon, even to empty my bladder -

it took that long for me to get myself medicated with pills. I also

have a handheld device that allows me to give myself an extra bolus of

morphine for breakthrough pain. The handheld Patient Therapy Manager

(PTM) is basically a reconditioned Palm with a telemetry head that

communicates with my pump when I hold it in the right spot.

I have encountered only one other person here at the Feisty group who

has had a pump implanted for pain, although I belong to another group

called the Pumpsters which has hundreds of members, many of them with

various spinal problems. I recommend the pump very highly to anyone

with intractable pain. Although I remain disabled for work

and " normal " " life, the life that does remain to me is so much more

livable with the pump than with anything else I have tried through the

years.

Best,

- In , " izarahstar "

<izarahstar@...> wrote:

>

> Happy Weekend Everyone,

> I wanted to throw a question out there in scoliosis cyber-space about

> pain control and find out what others may be using to help with

> Flatback and other wonderful complications due to Scoliosis.

> Currently I am taking Tylenol 3 along with Naproxen. I was taking the

> T-3s with Morphine but was not getting any relief. Not that this

> cocktail is any better....

> Is there a drug that actually helps with the pain?

> After chatting with two wonderful ladies on here who actually live in

> my country (lol) I am serioulsy considering surgery to help with

> Flatback. But in the meantime, I may end up waiting upwards of a year

> before surgery can happen and some pain relief would be nice.

> Any suggestions ( doesn't all have to be meds) would be appreicated.

> Thanks everyone.

> Izarah

>

[Guest guest]

I have been under the care of a wonderful Pain Mgmt. physician since 2002 (after 2 revision procedures for Flatback Syndrome and a few "quack" so-called pain mgmt. physicians who had me so wacked-out on various meds that I didn't even know my own name!!). After an extensive work-up that included a psychological eval. (to weed out the drug seekers), I signed a Pain Mgmt. Contract with my current M.D. The contract is to protect not only the doctor prescribing the narcotics but also the patient. How many of us have called our doctors' office, left a message regarding a problem we were having, then sat by the phone all day waiting for a reply?? I know I speak for others when I say that, sitting/lying around in pain for days, only to end up in some E.R. and looked down upon as some random, drug-seeker off the street is NO way to live! The Pain Contract is the patients' " insurance policy" for a prompt (within 24hrs) reply from the doctor's office. The med regime that I am on does not eleviate my pain completly; it does however allow me to live a relatively less pain existance. I take 120 mg of OxyContin CR 2X's /day; Neurontin 1200mg 3X's /day;Oxy IR 5mg as needed for breakthrough pain; and occasionally SOMA at bedtime or when I'm having severe muscle spasms throughout the day. This combo may seem like a lot of medication to some folks. But it works for me...and for my family! They like having a Mom that can participate in family activities, cook, travel, etc. instead of the drugged-up gork that I was before I found this doctor. And, YES, ...I am still "doing my thing" as a patient advocate for quality Pain Mgmt. For now, it's mostly via e-mails to members of the Senate and Congress for new and improved legislation. All the best, Beth

The fish are biting.

Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

[Guest guest]

Beth,

Thank you for your continued efforts to advocate for us all in the

area of pain management,

loriann

>

> I have been under the care of a wonderful Pain Mgmt. physician since

2002 (after 2 revision procedures for Flatback Syndrome and a few

" quack " so-called pain mgmt. physicians who had me so wacked-out on

various meds that I didn't even know my own name!!). After an

extensive work-up that included a psychological eval. (to weed out the

drug seekers), I signed a Pain Mgmt. Contract with my current M.D. The

contract is to protect not only the doctor prescribing the narcotics

but also the patient. How many of us have called our doctors' office,

left a message regarding a problem we were having, then sat by the

phone all day waiting for a reply?? I know I speak for others when I

say that, sitting/lying around in pain for days, only to end up in

some E.R. and looked down upon as some random, drug-seeker off the

street is NO way to live! The Pain Contract is the patients' "

insurance policy " for a prompt (within 24hrs) reply from the doctor's

office.

>

> The med regime that I am on does not eleviate my pain completly;

it does however allow me to live a relatively less pain existance. I

take 120 mg of OxyContin CR 2X's /day; Neurontin 1200mg 3X's /day;Oxy

IR 5mg as needed for breakthrough pain; and occasionally SOMA at

bedtime or when I'm having severe muscle spasms throughout the day.

This combo may seem like a lot of medication to some folks. But it

works for me...and for my family! They like having a Mom that can

participate in family activities, cook, travel, etc. instead of the

drugged-up gork that I was before I found this doctor.

>

> And, YES, ...I am still " doing my thing " as a patient

advocate for quality Pain Mgmt. For now, it's mostly via e-mails to

members of the Senate and Congress for new and improved legislation.

>

> All the best,

> Beth

[Guest guest]

-I had a Harrington rod put in in 1968,spent a year in a body cast.

The rod goes from top of shoulder to base of spine. I had a backwards

S double curve of 70 degree each.It was done at Columbia Presbyterian

in New York City and a correction of two 20 degree curves was achieved

.. I am now 55. I had NO problems until about 5 years ago. Lower back

pain,shrinking in height,hip and leg pain.I was considering surgery

last year as the bottom of the rod has come away from the spine. I now

tilt to the left a bit. Some days pain is agony. I take Ultram 50 mg 2

tabs 3 times daily. I have tried hydrocodone,oxycodone and oxycontin..

I did not like any of those as far as being able to still work and

drive. I am a hospice nurse.

I have " lurked " on this site for years and must thank you all for all

the wonderful pointers and information. I had thought I was just crazy

until I found you all.

After hearing so many stories about revisions I am not so sure its for

me. It looks as though folks still have to have " tweaks " after the

revisions...frequently even.That worries me.Especially since revision

seems to often involve taking out the old and putting in all new

rods,pedicle screws and even L-shaped rods into the hip bones! Whats a

revision? its more like a rebuild from scratch!What problems down the

road will that bring..

Thank you all for being here though.I am grateful.

Battle RN--

In , Beth <bethann0917@...> wrote:

>

> I have been under the care of a wonderful Pain Mgmt. physician since

2002 (after 2 revision procedures for Flatback Syndrome and a few

" quack " so-called pain mgmt. physicians who had me so wacked-out on

various meds that I didn't even know my own name!!). After an

extensive work-up that included a psychological eval. (to weed out the

drug seekers), I signed a Pain Mgmt. Contract with my current M.D. The

contract is to protect not only the doctor prescribing the narcotics

but also the patient. How many of us have called our doctors' office,

left a message regarding a problem we were having, then sat by the

phone all day waiting for a reply?? I know I speak for others when I

say that, sitting/lying around in pain for days, only to end up in

some E.R. and looked down upon as some random, drug-seeker off the

street is NO way to live! The Pain Contract is the patients' "

insurance policy " for a prompt (within 24hrs) reply from the doctor's

office.

>

> The med regime that I am on does not eleviate my pain completly;

it does however allow me to live a relatively less pain existance. I

take 120 mg of OxyContin CR 2X's /day; Neurontin 1200mg 3X's /day;Oxy

IR 5mg as needed for breakthrough pain; and occasionally SOMA at

bedtime or when I'm having severe muscle spasms throughout the day.

This combo may seem like a lot of medication to some folks. But it

works for me...and for my family! They like having a Mom that can

participate in family activities, cook, travel, etc. instead of the

drugged-up gork that I was before I found this doctor.

>

> And, YES, ...I am still " doing my thing " as a patient

advocate for quality Pain Mgmt. For now, it's mostly via e-mails to

members of the Senate and Congress for new and improved legislation.

>

> All the best,

> Beth

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> The fish are biting.

> Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Just wanted to welcome you out of " lurking " and thank you for your

input. I haven't had revision yet either, but am considering it for

this year, hoping it will help my hip, leg and neck pain.

Take care,

loriann

>

> -I had a Harrington rod put in in 1968,spent a year in a body cast.

> The rod goes from top of shoulder to base of spine. I had a backwards

> S double curve of 70 degree each.It was done at Columbia Presbyterian

> in New York City and a correction of two 20 degree curves was achieved

> . I am now 55. I had NO problems until about 5 years ago. Lower back

> pain,shrinking in height,hip and leg pain.I was considering surgery

> last year as the bottom of the rod has come away from the spine. I now

> tilt to the left a bit. Some days pain is agony. I take Ultram 50 mg 2

> tabs 3 times daily. I have tried hydrocodone,oxycodone and oxycontin..

> I did not like any of those as far as being able to still work and

> drive. I am a hospice nurse.

> I have " lurked " on this site for years and must thank you all for all

> the wonderful pointers and information. I had thought I was just crazy

> until I found you all.

> After hearing so many stories about revisions I am not so sure its for

> me. It looks as though folks still have to have " tweaks " after the

> revisions...frequently even.That worries me.Especially since revision

> seems to often involve taking out the old and putting in all new

> rods,pedicle screws and even L-shaped rods into the hip bones! Whats a

> revision? its more like a rebuild from scratch!What problems down the

> road will that bring..

> Thank you all for being here though.I am grateful.

> Battle RN--

[Guest guest]

Deb,

The term “addiction or addict” is

too widely used these days and it’s misunderstood. Being in pain and

taking your meds

Like the

Dr. told you to is not addiction nor are the withdrawal

symptoms. Not being in pain and craving larger and larger

doses of the medication is the type of addiction that you need to worry

about. Quite a few pain medications need to build up

to a certain level and be maintained there in order for them to work

correctly. So even non-narcotic, non-habit forming, meds

can cause the withdrawal-like symptoms that you are describing. I understand

your fear but it is one of those topics that I get

angry over. If you are that concerned over it ask your Dr. for a

different medication, that’s fine, but pain control is an important

part of healing and getting stronger. I have read where people’s

main goal was to quit taking any pain meds. After quitting

they would end up not moving around and some have even missed PT

because “it hurts too much” but all the while being proud

of being off of any pain meds. I don’t have much sympathy for

that way of looking at things!

[Guest guest]

is absolute correct in terms of there being almost no risk of becoming addicted to pain killers after surgery when they are prescribed for pain.How many of you have become addicted after being given pain killers after dental work LOL. Yet there are celebrities who go into rehab claiming that they became addicted because of dental work -- yeah right snort snort. Pain killers are critical -- here's something I found when I googled briefly. I know that almost everything I have read says that it is critical to take pain killers at least 30 minutes prior to each PT session or else the session is almost worthless. Studies show that patients who use pain medication (such as narcotics) early and aggressively after surgery have shorter hospital stays, suffer fewer chronic-pain problems later, and actually end up using fewer painkillers overall than those who avoid pain medication.There is some evidence that extreme suffering from pain can weaken your body's immune system. The risk of addiction to pain medication has been shown to be extremely low in patients using such medications for post-operative pain.On Feb 21, 2007, at 1:26 PM, Coffey wrote:     Deb,  The term “addiction or addict” is too widely used these days and it’s misunderstood. Being in pain and taking your medsLike the Dr. told you to is not addiction nor are the withdrawal symptoms. Not being in pain and craving larger and largerdoses of the medication is the type of addiction that you need to worry about. Quite a few pain medications need to build upto a certain level and be maintained there in order for them to work correctly. So even non-narcotic, non-habit forming, medscan cause the withdrawal-like symptoms that you are describing. I understand your fear but it is one of those topics that I getangry over. If you are that concerned over it ask your Dr. for a different medication, that’s fine, but pain control is an importantpart of healing and getting stronger. I have read where people’s main goal was to quit taking any pain meds. After quittingthey would end up not moving around and some have even missed PT because “it hurts too much” but all the while being proudof being off of any pain meds. I don’t have much sympathy for that way of looking at things!    

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your perspective. Having been brought up to " not be a

baby " , I had not thought of the pain meds as beneficial in the

healing process. You are correct in that if I cannot move around or

do my PT than it will be detrimental to my recovery. I had it in my

head that these pills were bad for me as I have an aquaintance who I

believe is addicted. I will call my doctor today and talk about

this. I need to get well and worry about the withdrawal later. Which

I now understand is a normal part of this medication and not

indicative of addiction.

Deb

>

> Deb,

> The term " addiction or addict " is too widely used these days and

it's

> misunderstood. Being in pain and taking your meds

> Like the Dr. told you to is not addiction nor are the withdrawal

symptoms.

> Not being in pain and craving larger and larger

> doses of the medication is the type of addiction that you need to

worry

> about. Quite a few pain medications need to build up

> to a certain level and be maintained there in order for them to

work

> correctly. So even non-narcotic, non-habit forming, meds

> can cause the withdrawal-like symptoms that you are describing. I

understand

> your fear but it is one of those topics that I get

> angry over. If you are that concerned over it ask your Dr. for a

different

> medication, that's fine, but pain control is an important

> part of healing and getting stronger. I have read where people's

main goal

> was to quit taking any pain meds. After quitting

> they would end up not moving around and some have even missed PT

because " it

> hurts too much " but all the while being proud

> of being off of any pain meds. I don't have much sympathy for that

way of

> looking at things!

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/11/08 1:05:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,

vgammill@... writes:

> If this is your fourth course of chemo then what is your oncologist

> doing to reverse or sidestep the multiple drug resistance from prior

> chemo treatments? It would be a shame for you to get only the side

> effects of the chemo and no benefit.

>

I was thinking the exact thing!

Try adding D-Phenylalaine to your usual meds for pain control. What about

morphine?

**************

It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & amp;

Finance.

(http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

Your pain is probably from distention or irritation of Glisson's

capsule. It would be useful to know the actual cause, say, a

subcapsular lession.

If this is your fourth course of chemo then what is your oncologist

doing to reverse or sidestep the multiple drug resistance from prior

chemo treatments? It would be a shame for you to get only the side

effects of the chemo and no benefit.

At 10:31 AM 3/11/2008, you wrote:

>I really love this listserv, it has taught me so much. However,

>recently my tumor grew large enough to push against a nerve ending

>in my liver, causing me unceasing pain. Pain so intense that I felt

>weeks away from death and called up my oncologist and agreed to go

>back to chemo (or killo) in an effort to minimize the tumor (yeah, I

>know ha ha, but the supplements obviously didn't minimize the

>tumor). This is my fourth course of chemo, I gave up on my last

>course of chemo half way through cause because I felt it was killing

>me,and turned to natural processes.

>

>However, when I asked my natural doctor he had no answer for me when

>I called him about whether he had anything that could deal with this

>pain. This is not to be construed as a complaint about him, there

>probably are FTC rules about non-official doctors and pain meds.

>

>Is there something out there in the natural and alternative field

>which manages pain (I presently am on some version of oxycontin plus

>morphine for the bad days). I am furious at my situation. I feel

>like a sucker for going back to chemo, as I DONT believe in it, but

>have no idea how to manage this pain.

>

>Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do in this situation,

>I don't recall reading anything about pain management, but I've only

>been on the list for a few months. Thank you for any help you can offer.

>

> Lowry

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you , my doctor just told me my tumor was pushing on a nerve, never

went any further - what is Glisson's capsule and how come I haven't heard of

this before?

Oncologist is doing nothing to reverse or sidestep, he just tells me that at

some point the body becomes immune to the chemo drugs and they don't work

anymore (but until then full throttle). I am getting him to work with Dr.

Slavin in Israel should my tumor get smaller. He has me on the sexy new Erbitux

(sounds natural doesn't it?) - I think most of his clients are on it as at least

four other people got it the last time I had an infusion.

To help with side effects I use supplements, exercise (miracle cure!) and follow

instructs from yourself, Edwin (that raw food diet makes me feel so much

better, the last time I ate a Snickers bar I threw up for 20 mins.) plus

cancertutor.com and drink Xengo, visit with a Medicine Man (this is something I

have just started in an effort to approach it spiritually.) I'm throwing it all

at the wall, but the pain got me backed into a corner.

, why does it make any difference as to what caused the pain?

Re: Pain Management

Your pain is probably from distention or irritation of Glisson's

capsule. It would be useful to know the actual cause, say, a

subcapsular lession.

If this is your fourth course of chemo then what is your oncologist

doing to reverse or sidestep the multiple drug resistance from prior

chemo treatments? It would be a shame for you to get only the side

effects of the chemo and no benefit.

At 10:31 AM 3/11/2008, you wrote:

>I really love this listserv, it has taught me so much. However,

>recently my tumor grew large enough to push against a nerve ending

>in my liver, causing me unceasing pain. Pain so intense that I felt

>weeks away from death and called up my oncologist and agreed to go

>back to chemo (or killo) in an effort to minimize the tumor (yeah, I

>know ha ha, but the supplements obviously didn't minimize the

>tumor). This is my fourth course of chemo, I gave up on my last

>course of chemo half way through cause because I felt it was killing

>me,and turned to natural processes.

>

>However, when I asked my natural doctor he had no answer for me when

>I called him about whether he had anything that could deal with this

>pain. This is not to be construed as a complaint about him, there

>probably are FTC rules about non-official doctors and pain meds.

>

>Is there something out there in the natural and alternative field

>which manages pain (I presently am on some version of oxycontin plus

>morphine for the bad days). I am furious at my situation. I feel

>like a sucker for going back to chemo, as I DONT believe in it, but

>have no idea how to manage this pain.

>

>Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do in this situation,

>I don't recall reading anything about pain management, but I've only

>been on the list for a few months. Thank you for any help you can offer.

>

> Lowry

>

<!--

#ygrp-mkp{

border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;}

#ygrp-mkp hr{

border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

#ygrp-mkp #hd{

color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;}

#ygrp-mkp #ads{

margin-bottom:10px;}

#ygrp-mkp .ad{

padding:0 0;}

#ygrp-mkp .ad a{

color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

-->

<!--

#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

font-family:Arial;}

#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

#ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

-->

<!--

#ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

#ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

#ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean,

sans-serif;}

#ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

#ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

#ygrp-text{

font-family:Georgia;

}

#ygrp-text p{

margin:0 0 1em 0;}

#ygrp-tpmsgs{

font-family:Arial;

clear:both;}

#ygrp-vitnav{

padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}

#ygrp-vitnav a{

padding:0 1px;}

#ygrp-actbar{

clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}

#ygrp-actbar .left{

float:left;white-space:nowrap;}

..bld{font-weight:bold;}

#ygrp-grft{

font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;}

#ygrp-ft{

font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666;

padding:5px 0;

}

#ygrp-mlmsg #logo{

padding-bottom:10px;}

#ygrp-vital{

background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;}

#ygrp-vital #vithd{

font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:upp\

ercase;}

#ygrp-vital ul{

padding:0;margin:2px 0;}

#ygrp-vital ul li{

list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee;

}

#ygrp-vital ul li .ct{

font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-ri\

ght:.5em;}

#ygrp-vital ul li .cat{

font-weight:bold;}

#ygrp-vital a{

text-decoration:none;}

#ygrp-vital a:hover{

text-decoration:underline;}

#ygrp-sponsor #hd{

color:#999;font-size:77%;}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov{

padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{

padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov li{

list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;}

#ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{

text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;}

#ygrp-sponsor #nc{

background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad{

padding:8px 0;}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{

font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%\

;}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad a{

text-decoration:none;}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{

text-decoration:underline;}

#ygrp-sponsor .ad p{

margin:0;}

o{font-size:0;}

..MsoNormal{

margin:0 0 0 0;}

#ygrp-text tt{

font-size:120%;}

blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;}

..replbq{margin:4;}

-->

________________________________________________________________________________\

____

Looking for last minute shopping deals?

Find them fast with Search.

http://tools.search./newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

[Guest guest]

At 05:28 PM 3/11/2008, you wrote:

Glisson's capsule is a collagenous adherent capsule that encapsulates

the liver. It is rife with pain receptors that sense irritation,

rupture, and stretching. First you would want to know if the cause

of your pain is acute or chronic. There is no bright line

distinction between the two, but in general, acute problems can

usually be addressed with a quick fix such as antibiotics or surgery

while chronic problems are a great annoyance for you and

consternation for your physician.

I do encourage self examination. You might think that you don't have

the knowledge and the skills of an internist, but you do have a

direct source of information that he/she can never have -- you know

exactly where it hurts and the kind of pain you feel. Too, you can

quickly learn auscultation (listening), percussion (tapping), signs

and tests (e.g., 's sign). We usually teach these in our

program. Most attendees relish the chance to take away some of the

mystery of professional assessment. This is just as empowering as

learning to talk to your physician with a demeanor of collegial authority.

I also like Erbitux. It has proven to be a very useful tool in

cancer therapy. Too bad Martha went to prison over it.

>Thank you , my doctor just told me my tumor was pushing on a

>nerve, never went any further - what is Glisson's capsule and how

>come I haven't heard of this before?

>

>Oncologist is doing nothing to reverse or sidestep, he just tells me

>that at some point the body becomes immune to the chemo drugs and

>they don't work anymore (but until then full throttle). I am getting

>him to work with Dr. Slavin in Israel should my tumor get smaller.

>He has me on the sexy new Erbitux (sounds natural doesn't it?) - I

>think most of his clients are on it as at least four other people

>got it the last time I had an infusion.

>

>To help with side effects I use supplements, exercise (miracle

>cure!) and follow instructs from yourself, Edwin (that raw food diet

>makes me feel so much better, the last time I ate a Snickers bar I

>threw up for 20 mins.) plus cancertutor.com and drink Xengo, visit

>with a Medicine Man (this is something I have just started in an

>effort to approach it spiritually.) I'm throwing it all at the wall,

>but the pain got me backed into a corner.

>

>, why does it make any difference as to what caused the pain?

>

>

>

> Re: Pain Management

>

>Your pain is probably from distention or irritation of Glisson's

>

>capsule. It would be useful to know the actual cause, say, a

>

>subcapsular lession.

>

>If this is your fourth course of chemo then what is your oncologist

>

>doing to reverse or sidestep the multiple drug resistance from prior

>

>chemo treatments? It would be a shame for you to get only the side

>

>effects of the chemo and no benefit.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Ha ha, my oncologist mentioned Martha also. Glad to hear that you

approve of Erbitux, I had my second infusion today and don't feel bad at all,

just a tad stale, but I don't feel I'm going to hurl soon. Would you believe

that Tommy Smothers came to the clinic and demonstrated some yoyo tricks for us!

That wasn't planned but it was great adjunctive therapy, he does a mean ny

Carson imitation.

Thanks for the summary about the Glissons capsule, I will definitely go more

towards listening to my body, that smacks of common sense, and will search for

info re 's sign. They tell me no surgery unless my lung tumors go away,

but they also told me that my liver is 'stable' while the cancer has marched on

to the abdomen and grown in the lungs so I don't know why my liver is causing

problems. I had a similar pain episode about six months ago.

Thank you for this list

Re: Pain Management

>

>Your pain is probably from distention or irritation of Glisson's

>

>capsule. It would be useful to know the actual cause, say, a

>

>subcapsular lession.

>

>If this is your fourth course of chemo then what is your oncologist

>

>doing to reverse or sidestep the multiple drug resistance from prior

>

>chemo treatments? It would be a shame for you to get only the side

>

>effects of the chemo and no benefit.

>

>

[Guest guest]

has a wealth of information to share on this

site. He is truly an asset!

--- Lowry <clowry1953@...> wrote:

> Ha ha, my oncologist mentioned Martha also.

> Glad to hear that you approve of Erbitux, I had my

> second infusion today and don't feel bad at all,

> just a tad stale, but I don't feel I'm going to hurl

> soon. Would you believe that Tommy Smothers came to

> the clinic and demonstrated some yoyo tricks for us!

> That wasn't planned but it was great adjunctive

> therapy, he does a mean ny Carson imitation.

>

> Thanks for the summary about the Glissons capsule, I

> will definitely go more towards listening to my

> body, that smacks of common sense, and will search

> for info re 's sign. They tell me no surgery

> unless my lung tumors go away, but they also told me

> that my liver is 'stable' while the cancer has

> marched on to the abdomen and grown in the lungs so

> I don't know why my liver is causing problems. I

> had a similar pain episode about six months ago.

>

> Thank you for this list

>

>

>

> Re: Pain Management

> >

> >Your pain is probably from distention or irritation

> of Glisson's

> >

> >capsule. It would be useful to know the actual

> cause, say, a

> >

> >subcapsular lession.

> >

> >If this is your fourth course of chemo then what is

> your oncologist

> >

> >doing to reverse or sidestep the multiple drug

> resistance from prior

> >

> >chemo treatments? It would be a shame for you to

> get only the side

> >

> >effects of the chemo and no benefit.

> >

> >

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

>

>

> <!--

>

> #ygrp-mkp{

> border:1px solid

> #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px

> 0px;padding:0px 14px;}

> #ygrp-mkp hr{

> border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}

> #ygrp-mkp #hd{

>

color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px

> 0px;}

> #ygrp-mkp #ads{

> margin-bottom:10px;}

> #ygrp-mkp .ad{

> padding:0 0;}

> #ygrp-mkp .ad a{

> color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}

> -->

>

> <!--

>

> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{

> font-family:Arial;}

> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{

> margin:10px

>

0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}

> #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{

> margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}

> -->

>

> <!--

>

> #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial,

> helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

> #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}

> #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial,

> helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}

> #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;}

> #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}

> #ygrp-text{

> font-family:Georgia;

> }

> #ygrp-text p{

> margin:0 0 1em 0;}

> #ygrp-tpmsgs{

> font-family:Arial;

> clear:both;}

> #ygrp-vitnav{

>

padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;}

> #ygrp-vitnav a{

> padding:0 1px;}

> #ygrp-actbar{

> clear:both;margin:25px

> 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;}

>

=== message truncated ===

Immature love is loving someone because you need them, mature love is needing

someone because you love them!

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/12/08 10:35:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,

jennyhauf@... writes:

> has a wealth of information to share on this

> site

What site ?

**************

It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on

AOL Money & amp; Finance.

(http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 3/13/08 9:37:41 AM Eastern Standard Time,

jennyhauf@... writes:

> am referring to Gammill. He post regularly

> with this group.

>

>

I know but you said a site...

**************

It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms,

and advice on AOL Money & amp; Finance.

(http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

[Guest guest]

i am referring to Gammill. He post regularly

with this group.

--- szukidavis@... wrote:

> In a message dated 3/12/08 10:35:54 PM Eastern

> Standard Time,

> jennyhauf@... writes:

>

>

> > has a wealth of information to share on

> this

> > site

>

> What site ?

>

>

> **************

> It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on

> AOL Money & amp; Finance.

>

> (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

Immature love is loving someone because you need them, mature love is needing

someone because you love them!

[Guest guest]

I do have someone updating my site now, but I'm afraid it will not

have the direct help that many would like. There are several reasons

for this.

First, I can think of nothing more personal than cancer and something

this personal requires individual attention -- from someone other

than oneself. I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that most

(maybe all) humans are at least mildly insane. It think it begins

with the foolish indoctrinations in childhood. Even the most

fastidious thinkers and observers among us can't always accurately

proofread our own prose. We are mostly blind to our

inadequacies. We see things so selectively. When 60 Minutes had its

first segment on shark cartilage use in Cuba, all the excitable

cancer patients ran out and bought thousands of tons. No one paid

attention to the sun and exercise component of the way the treatment

was used in Cuba. We see what we want to see.

Second, anyone who publicly makes edgy recommendations that undermine

the authority of the medical guilds, the pharmaceutical companies,

and the government alphabet agencies is likely to get smacked

down. In earlier times I certainly would have been burned at the

stake. They'd probably fire up Joe Castronovo too. BTW, I am

absolutely appalled that McCain voted for waterboarding in support of

Bush's torture policy. The whole world is insane.

[Guest guest]

Very well said.

--- VGammill <vgammill@...> wrote:

> I do have someone updating my site now, but I'm

> afraid it will not

> have the direct help that many would like. There

> are several reasons

> for this.

>

> First, I can think of nothing more personal than

> cancer and something

> this personal requires individual attention -- from

> someone other

> than oneself. I have reluctantly come to the

> conclusion that most

> (maybe all) humans are at least mildly insane. It

> think it begins

> with the foolish indoctrinations in childhood. Even

> the most

> fastidious thinkers and observers among us can't

> always accurately

> proofread our own prose. We are mostly blind to our

>

> inadequacies. We see things so selectively. When

> 60 Minutes had its

> first segment on shark cartilage use in Cuba, all

> the excitable

> cancer patients ran out and bought thousands of

> tons. No one paid

> attention to the sun and exercise component of the

> way the treatment

> was used in Cuba. We see what we want to see.

>

> Second, anyone who publicly makes edgy

> recommendations that undermine

> the authority of the medical guilds, the

> pharmaceutical companies,

> and the government alphabet agencies is likely to

> get smacked

> down. In earlier times I certainly would have been

> burned at the

> stake. They'd probably fire up Joe Castronovo too.

> BTW, I am

> absolutely appalled that McCain voted for

> waterboarding in support of

> Bush's torture policy. The whole world is insane.

>

>

>

>

Immature love is loving someone because you need them, mature love is needing

someone because you love them!

[Guest guest]

The best thing for cancer-related pain is an effective cancer treatment like

LDN. To learn more, visit

http://tinyurl.com/2p57xv

[Guest guest]

It depends on who you are talking to. It took me a year to get back on the

right track from steroids and other pain killers but you know I did discover

something while doing this. The doctor whom I was seeing prior had his hooks

in me for a few reasons. One, money. Two, the doctor who sent me two him

were working together. Think about it. A back doctor and a pain doctor

working together and sending their patients. You rub mine, I'll rub your's..

oh never mind....Anyway.

Here is the breakdown of my doctor's visit to the University of Nebraska

Medical Center when I saw the neurosurgeon.

He did a few pokes on my back, took a look at the scan and Neurosurgeon

said, " you don't need surgery " .

Me: huh? You're S@#$% me!

Neurosurgeon: " Absolutely, and I'll gladly show you why, step off the

table " .

My husband helped me down from the table. As I'm standing there he presses

on my hip and

Neurosurgeon: " you feel that? "

Me " YEOW! HELL yes I felt it and it went click didn't it?! "

Neurosurgeon: " yes it did and the reason why it did that is because you are

out of alignment. "

Me: " Well, have to be taking after dealing with all these issues "

Neurosurgeon: " Now, for your lower back problem "

Me: Yes, it feels like a burning sensation.

Neurosurgeon: (pokes on lower back above area)

Me: how did you do that?

Neurosurgeon: What this doctor said is not true, your lower disc is just

fine. The issue lays with your trigger points as they are the ones causing

the damage. I'll show you if I may

Me: Okay, I guess. (he pokes me and I jumped off the table and about went

through the sink into the next room - literally because of the pain) I

scream out a HOLY @#$%!!

Neurosurgeon: See, That area is where the issue lies So, to remedy this is

water therapy. Sorry for the discomfort.

Me: That's okay but glad you showed me what's going on and I don't need

surgery.

The neurosurgeon had given me the name of a pain management doctor within

UNMC to work with who can guide me through water therapy and such.

Unfortunately at the time, I was in a situation of 1) in so much pain I

didn't want to deal with anything else and 2) I was going to full time

classes (15 credit hours) so it was a little difficult. I ended up taking

some time off. At any rate, I went back to see the pain management doctor I

was directed to at UNMC for a consultation, got the information I needed for

water therapy so I can start it. Now it's a matter of when, everything is a

little crazy right now with classes but eventually when things settle down I

will. One thing at a time.

One thing I learned with doctors especially in the area of pain management

and the area of neurology and neurosurgery is it is a MUST to find the right

ones and not settle. I am quite anal about that issue and ask a lot of

questions. Luckily, I have been blessed so if ever I do need someone of this

nature I know where to turn.

[Guest guest]

---Hello

my PM says that is my " faset joints " .. He gives me some kind of

shot into them and they are fine for a few months,, He said they

cant do any kind of surgery on them,,, just a guess

hope you have a less painful evening

Soft hugs

In Stimulator , " S. Elvins " <apageor2@...> wrote:

>

> It depends on who you are talking to. It took me a year to get

back on the

> right track from steroids and other pain killers but you know I

did discover

> something while doing this. The doctor whom I was seeing prior had

his hooks

> in me for a few reasons. One, money. Two, the doctor who sent me

two him

> were working together. Think about it. A back doctor and a pain

doctor

> working together and sending their patients. You rub mine, I'll

rub your's..

> oh never mind....Anyway.

>

> Here is the breakdown of my doctor's visit to the University of

Nebraska

> Medical Center when I saw the neurosurgeon.

>

> He did a few pokes on my back, took a look at the scan and

Neurosurgeon

> said, " you don't need surgery " .

>

> Me: huh? You're S@#$% me!

> Neurosurgeon: " Absolutely, and I'll gladly show you why, step off

the

> table " .

>

> My husband helped me down from the table. As I'm standing there he

presses

> on my hip and

>

> Neurosurgeon: " you feel that? "

> Me " YEOW! HELL yes I felt it and it went click didn't it?! "

>

> Neurosurgeon: " yes it did and the reason why it did that is

because you are

> out of alignment. "

> Me: " Well, have to be taking after dealing with all these issues "

>

> Neurosurgeon: " Now, for your lower back problem "

> Me: Yes, it feels like a burning sensation.

> Neurosurgeon: (pokes on lower back above area)

> Me: how did you do that?

> Neurosurgeon: What this doctor said is not true, your lower disc

is just

> fine. The issue lays with your trigger points as they are the ones

causing

> the damage. I'll show you if I may

> Me: Okay, I guess. (he pokes me and I jumped off the table and

about went

> through the sink into the next room - literally because of the

pain) I

> scream out a HOLY @#$%!!

> Neurosurgeon: See, That area is where the issue lies So, to remedy

this is

> water therapy. Sorry for the discomfort.

> Me: That's okay but glad you showed me what's going on and I don't

need

> surgery.

>

> The neurosurgeon had given me the name of a pain management doctor

within

> UNMC to work with who can guide me through water therapy and such.

> Unfortunately at the time, I was in a situation of 1) in so much

pain I

> didn't want to deal with anything else and 2) I was going to full

time

> classes (15 credit hours) so it was a little difficult. I ended up

taking

> some time off. At any rate, I went back to see the pain management

doctor I

> was directed to at UNMC for a consultation, got the information I

needed for

> water therapy so I can start it. Now it's a matter of when,

everything is a

> little crazy right now with classes but eventually when things

settle down I

> will. One thing at a time.

>

> One thing I learned with doctors especially in the area of pain

management

> and the area of neurology and neurosurgery is it is a MUST to find

the right

> ones and not settle. I am quite anal about that issue and ask a

lot of

> questions. Luckily, I have been blessed so if ever I do need

someone of this

> nature I know where to turn.

>

>

>