prolotherapy

[Guest guest]

Hello Mike,

A theracane is a cane shaped device with all these protruding knbs on

it and so on that curves around so you can do accupressure/reflexology

anywhere on your body. I bought mine from this outdoor supply store,

that sold backpacks and climbing gear and camping stuff and all.

Barb

Tuesday, January 23, 2001, 14:02:04, you wrote:

MEC> Barb & Lana

MEC> That disclaimer is always given by Prolotherapists before treatment, as

MEC> mentioned in the book. It is a disclaimer that anyone giving injections

MEC> of any kind should give, since just about any injection has the potential

MEC> to kill if given incorrectly or due to individual allergic reactions,

MEC> ect. Yet, MD's et al, never mention it. And, it is the MD's doing

MEC> " conventional " treatments that are responsible for around 100, 000 deaths

MEC> per year due to drug overdoses and other screw-ups.

MEC> As far as I know, there has not been ANY deaths caused by Prolotherapy.

MEC> (I will confirm this with the Prolotherapist I will be seeing tomorrow.)

MEC> If there were, you can be sure that next day's headlines would be

MEC> screaming: " ALTERNATIVE TREATMENT PROVES FATAL!! " The medical cartel

MEC> would come down on them with full force.

MEC> Lana mentioned her pain was not improved, but worsened. And, that the

MEC> needle was dulled after the first injection. I experience this also,

MEC> especially when my knee was treated. Doc would sometimes do 6-8

MEC> injections with the same needle. I, too, could hear the needle

MEC> penetrating. The penetration never caused pain for me, since there was

MEC> always an anesthetic mixed into the solution. Some pain was ocassionally

MEC> felt when the solution was injected, but never a serious pain. Lana, you

MEC> are the first I've heard a negative report from. So, that means that

MEC> Prolotherapy may not benefit everyone, or, your practioner may have some

MEC> shortcomings.

MEC> And Barb, what is a theracane?

MEC> Corny

MEC> **********************************************************************

MEC> Barb wrote:

MEC> Hello Mike,

MEC> Several years ago I learned of prolotherapy and bought a book on it,

MEC> called PAIN, PAIN, GO AWAY, but in that book it said one thing that

MEC> gave me pause. That if the irritant is given incorrectly or

MEC> sometimes even it if is, this type of therapy can cause death.

MEC> That scared me off of it. Now it has been years since I read up and

MEC> thay may only have appled to my intended use which was my neck which

MEC> was killing me at the time. I chose magnet therapy instead, and

MEC> glucosamine and chondroiten and so on.I get my best relief from

MEC> magnets and a device calle a theracane

MEC> Barb

MEC> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

MEC> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

MEC> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find here are

for information and research purposes only. We are people sharing information

we believe in. If you act on ideas

MEC> found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence,

common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By

joining the list you agree to hold

MEC> yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas found here

without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a researcher or health

care provider.

MEC> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the following

address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

MEC> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY of

the message! :

MEC> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

MEC> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal mode.

--

Best regards,

Barbara mailto:barbara@...

[Guest guest]

You can see a picture of the Theracane under " Products " at

http://www.impaccusa.com/frameset.html

Lana

> Hello Mike,

>

>

> A theracane is a cane shaped device with all these protruding knbs on

> it and so on that curves around so you can do accupressure/reflexology

> anywhere on your body. I bought mine from this outdoor supply store,

> that sold backpacks and climbing gear and camping stuff and all.

>

> Barb

> Tuesday, January 23, 2001, 14:02:04, you wrote:

>

>

> MEC> Barb & Lana

> MEC> That disclaimer is always given by Prolotherapists before

treatment, as

> MEC> mentioned in the book. It is a disclaimer that anyone giving

injections

> MEC> of any kind should give, since just about any injection has the

potential

> MEC> to kill if given incorrectly or due to individual allergic

reactions,

> MEC> ect. Yet, MD's et al, never mention it. And, it is the MD's

doing

> MEC> " conventional " treatments that are responsible for around 100,

000 deaths

> MEC> per year due to drug overdoses and other screw-ups.

>

> MEC> As far as I know, there has not been ANY deaths caused by

Prolotherapy.

> MEC> (I will confirm this with the Prolotherapist I will be seeing

tomorrow.)

> MEC> If there were, you can be sure that next day's headlines would

be

> MEC> screaming: " ALTERNATIVE TREATMENT PROVES FATAL!! " The medical

cartel

> MEC> would come down on them with full force.

>

> MEC> Lana mentioned her pain was not improved, but worsened. And,

that the

> MEC> needle was dulled after the first injection. I experience this

also,

> MEC> especially when my knee was treated. Doc would sometimes do 6-8

> MEC> injections with the same needle. I, too, could hear the needle

> MEC> penetrating. The penetration never caused pain for me, since

there was

> MEC> always an anesthetic mixed into the solution. Some pain was

ocassionally

> MEC> felt when the solution was injected, but never a serious pain.

Lana, you

> MEC> are the first I've heard a negative report from. So, that means

that

> MEC> Prolotherapy may not benefit everyone, or, your practioner may

have some

> MEC> shortcomings.

>

> MEC> And Barb, what is a theracane?

>

> MEC> Corny

> MEC>

**********************************************************************

> MEC> Barb wrote:

>

> MEC> Hello Mike,

>

>

> MEC> Several years ago I learned of prolotherapy and bought a book

on it,

> MEC> called PAIN, PAIN, GO AWAY, but in that book it said one thing

that

> MEC> gave me pause. That if the irritant is given incorrectly or

> MEC> sometimes even it if is, this type of therapy can cause death.

> MEC> That scared me off of it. Now it has been years since I read

up and

> MEC> thay may only have appled to my intended use which was my neck

which

> MEC> was killing me at the time. I chose magnet therapy instead,

and

> MEC> glucosamine and chondroiten and so on.I get my best relief from

> MEC> magnets and a device calle a theracane

>

> MEC> Barb

>

> MEC> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative

therapies, and other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> MEC> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> MEC> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will

find here are for information and research purposes only. We are people

sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas

> MEC> found here, you do so at your own risk. Self-help requires

intelligence, common sense, and the ability to take responsibility for

your own actions. By joining the list you agree to hold

> MEC> yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do not use any ideas

found here without consulting a medical professional, unless you are a

researcher or health care provider.

>

> MEC> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the

following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> MEC> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or

BODY of the message! :

>

> MEC> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> MEC> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to

normal mode.

>

>

>

> --

> Best regards,

> Barbara mailto:barbara@...

>

>

>

> OxyPLUS is an unmoderated e-ring dealing with oxidative therapies, and

other alternative self-help subjects.

>

> THERE IS NO MEDICAL ADVICE HERE!

>

> This list is the 1st Amendment in action. The things you will find

here are for information and research purposes only. We are people

sharing information we believe in. If you act on ideas found here, you

do so at your own risk. Self-help requires intelligence, common sense,

and the ability to take responsibility for your own actions. By joining

the list you agree to hold yourself FULLY responsible FOR yourself. Do

not use any ideas found here without consulting a medical professional,

unless you are a researcher or health care provider.

>

> You can unsubscribe via e-mail by sending A NEW e-mail to the

following address - NOT TO THE OXYPLUS LIST! -

> DO NOT USE REPLY BUTTON & DO NOT PUT THIS IN THE SUBJECT LINE or BODY

of the message! :

>

> oxyplus-unsubscribeegroups

>

> oxyplus-normalonelist - switch your subscription to normal

mode.

>

[Guest guest]

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:42:10 +0200

From: Ronen <yron@...>

Subject: RE: WHAT IS PROLOTHERAPY?

Thanks, Jack.

You explain very well what it may do to you. But, what IS Prolotherapy?

Ronen.

---------------------------------------------

It is injecting a soloution into your body ---into the area

of where the ligament meets the bone.

see:

http://www.ongleyonline.com/

Dr Ongley calls it reconstructive therapy.

Both my husband and I were

treated by Dr Ongley in 1997 and I can share my/our experiences with you

if you want to know more. It was expensive and painful but the results

were wonderful.

[Guest guest]

Thanks, .

I see now.

The solution is a sugar solution, to cause inflammation to the area - hence

the pain.

There is a magnetic treatment protocol for such cases, I applied very

successfully with some patients, and with less pain and expenses, I think,

since it does not involve a series of injections...

Ronen.

Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 10:42:10 +0200

From: Ronen <yron@...>

Subject: RE: WHAT IS PROLOTHERAPY?

Thanks, Jack.

You explain very well what it may do to you. But, what IS Prolotherapy?

Ronen.

---------------------------------------------

It is injecting a soloution into your body ---into the area

of where the ligament meets the bone.

see:

http://www.ongleyonline.com/

Dr Ongley calls it reconstructive therapy.

Both my husband and I were

treated by Dr Ongley in 1997 and I can share my/our experiences with you

if you want to know more. It was expensive and painful but the results

were wonderful.

[Guest guest]

Minga;

You are talking about Synvisc manufactured by Genzyme Biosurgical.

Les

At 10:01 PM 10/3/01 -0400, AboWoman@... wrote

>In a message dated 10/3/01 5:15:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

>drscott@... writes:

>

><< I am also looking for someone to do prolotx.

> As I understand it, an irritant is injected into an unstable joint causing

> it to scar and reduce hypermobility.

>

> I have a pt. who had meniscus trim-otomy and the surgery was more extensive

> than the dr. had expected. At 40, she would like to do anything which delays

> a total knee replacement.

>

> I have heard rimors of Europeans injecting glucosamine sulphate directly

> into joints with good results.

> (Why do Europeans have all the fun?)

> --

> Dr. Abrahamson >>

>Hi ,

>this injection is now covered by medicare in the US. I attended a mini

>lecture by an orthopedic surgeon earlier this year who says it works like a

>charm. It takes 3 injections of a solution that mimics synovial fluid and is

>made from chicken combs. glucosamine sulfate. The injections hurt like hell

>according to the surgeon, however, in mild osteo arth cases of the knee, it

>will reverse the problem remodeling the knee quite nicely. Even in moderate

>to severe cases there is marked decrease in pain and some remodeling.

>Woodland Park Hospital does the proceedures. I'm not overly fond of the

>surgeon, but any surgeon should know of the proceedure as it's now covered by

>medicare. I seem to remember the cost being somewhere around $700 for all 3

>injections.

>Minga Guerrero DC

>(503) 669-1966

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Les,, Ho, D.O., is an orthopedist in PDX who does

prolotherapy but calls it trigger point injection for insurance purposes.

He has about 80% success in my patients. He also does acupuncture, and

has the background of having been an orthopedic surgeon( now does only

office procedures) Phone number is 5032340891. Ron Johansen

[Guest guest]

,

Hanley. MD at Seventh Day Adventist does Hyaluronic(sp??)

injections in the knee. It lasts for about 6 month and then the procedure

needs to be repeated. We have had good results with it in the

degenerative knee.

Ted

Ted Forcum, DC, DACBSP, CSCS

Back In Motion Sports Injuries Clinic, LLC

11385 SW Scholls Ferry Road

Beaverton, Oregon 97008

ph 503.524.9040

On Wed, 03 Oct 2001 17:15:21 -0700 Abrahamson

<drscott@...> writes:

> I am also looking for someone to do prolotx.

> As I understand it, an irritant is injected into an unstable joint

> causing

> it to scar and reduce hypermobility.

>

> I have a pt. who had meniscus trim-otomy and the surgery was more

> extensive

> than the dr. had expected. At 40, she would like to do anything

> which delays

> a total knee replacement.

>

> I have heard rimors of Europeans injecting glucosamine sulphate

> directly

> into joints with good results.

> (Why do Europeans have all the fun?)

> --

> Dr. Abrahamson

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Minga and Les. I'm sure the patient will go for it. I will report

back on the outcome.

--

Dr. Abrahamson

> From: AboWoman@...

> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 22:01:40 EDT

>

> Subject: Re: Prolotherapy

>

> In a message dated 10/3/01 5:15:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

> drscott@... writes:

>

> << I am also looking for someone to do prolotx.

> As I understand it, an irritant is injected into an unstable joint causing

> it to scar and reduce hypermobility.

>

> I have a pt. who had meniscus trim-otomy and the surgery was more extensive

> than the dr. had expected. At 40, she would like to do anything which delays

> a total knee replacement.

>

> I have heard rimors of Europeans injecting glucosamine sulphate directly

> into joints with good results.

> (Why do Europeans have all the fun?)

> --

> Dr. Abrahamson >>

> Hi ,

> this injection is now covered by medicare in the US. I attended a mini

> lecture by an orthopedic surgeon earlier this year who says it works like a

> charm. It takes 3 injections of a solution that mimics synovial fluid and is

> made from chicken combs. glucosamine sulfate. The injections hurt like hell

> according to the surgeon, however, in mild osteo arth cases of the knee, it

> will reverse the problem remodeling the knee quite nicely. Even in moderate

> to severe cases there is marked decrease in pain and some remodeling.

> Woodland Park Hospital does the proceedures. I'm not overly fond of the

> surgeon, but any surgeon should know of the proceedure as it's now covered by

> medicare. I seem to remember the cost being somewhere around $700 for all 3

> injections.

> Minga Guerrero DC

> (503) 669-1966

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Just chiming in on Plantar Fasciitis care. It seems that most perscriptions

for orthopedic P.T. are too conservative to be effective. I am constantly

having patients come in with a history including a perscrition for 6

treatments over a month or 8 treatments over 8 weeks. If the effects were

cumulative it might work but activity usually reverses gains.

I have had extremely different results with the therapies noted by Ted below

if they are used very frequently for a faily long duration. (An underlying

mechanism is that tennis elbow, CTS, PF, and others are conditions that

become painful after a long period of development. Recovery is likewise long

and the patient's activity hinders it.)

The first battle seems to be changing the patient's concept that a quick fix

is in the works.

--

Dr. Abrahamson

> From: " S. Feinberg " <feinberg@...>

> Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 12:51:09 -0700

> Ted Forcum <tlf-3@...>

> Cc:

> Subject: Re: Prolotherapy

>

> Ted;

> My patient had asked about it after doing some reading about the general

> topic of prolotherapy. I usually get terrific results with PF patients by

> correcting their foot mechanics with orthotics, often requiring no other

> active tx. In some I use cross fiber friction therapy utilizing the

> Percussor that IMPAC produces. I often recommend nsaids, and MSM as

> well. This lady has not had a lasting improvement.

> Can you tell me more about the " low dye taping " . Also, who makes the high

> intensity US?

> Thanks,

> Les

>

> At 12:32 PM 10/3/01 -0700, Ted Forcum wrote:

>> Les,

>> My experiences with prolotherapy w/ PF is not good. Have you exhausted

>> all the conservative treatments ( US, EMS, low dye taping, orthotics,

>> biomechanically correct footwear, night splinting, massage, manipulation,

>> stretching and strengthening)? There is a new high intensity ultrasound

>> technic that I would use next. Like prolotherapy the patient will be sore

>> afterward, but it is less invasive.

>> Ted

>>

>> Ted Forcum, DC, DACBSP, CSCS

>> Back In Motion Sports Injuries Clinic, LLC

>> 11385 SW Scholls Ferry Road

>> Beaverton, Oregon 97008

>> ph 503.524.9040

>>

>> On Wed, 03 Oct 2001 10:43:16 -0700 " S. Feinberg "

>> <feinberg@...> writes:

>>> Does anyone have a recommendation for a doc in the Willamette Valley

>>> area

>>> who does prolotherapy? Also, does anyone have experience with

>>> prolotherapy

>>> for plantar fasciitis?

>>> TIA

>>> S. Feinberg, D.C.

>>>

>>>

>>>

[Guest guest]

Here's my take on prolotherapy.

Its a powerful tool, and yes its invasive and expensive. I send patients

for it, and I have had it done to myself, for my wrist and for my sacroiliac

joint, with some success.

The problem with prolo, which is a universal problem in medicine and

chiropractic, is that most prolo docs see every patient as a prolo

candidate.

The best prolo docs have good hands, because the diagnosis is done with

palpation, finding tender and hypermobile areas. Osteopaths who have both

manual training and prolo training can be particularly good at this,

although MDs can have good hands too.

I think of it as a last resort, somewhat less invasive than surgery, but

certainly after more conservative measures have been exhausted.

Marc Heller

mheller@...

1605 Siskiyou Blvd.

Ashland, OR 97520

541-482-0625

Re: Prolotherapy

Les,, Ho, D.O., is an orthopedist in PDX who does

prolotherapy but calls it trigger point injection for insurance purposes.

He has about 80% success in my patients. He also does acupuncture, and

has the background of having been an orthopedic surgeon( now does only

office procedures) Phone number is 5032340891. Ron Johansen

[Guest guest]

Ron;

Thanks for the recommendation, I think. Let's see. Used to be an orthopedic

surgeon, but just does office procedures now, miscodes his prolotherapy as

trigger point injection so insurance will pay. Am I seeing red flags, or

red herrings?

Sounds like you have had good experiences with him, though. Have you sent

any patients with plantar fasciitis, and what results have you seen with those

particular folks?

Les

At 09:13 AM 10/4/01 -0700, R JohanR Johansen wrote:

>Les,, Ho, D.O., is an orthopedist in PDX who does

>prolotherapy but calls it trigger point injection for insurance purposes.

>He has about 80% success in my patients. He also does acupuncture, and

>has the background of having been an orthopedic surgeon( now does only

>office procedures) Phone number is 5032340891. Ron Johansen

[Guest guest]

prolo will not correct the disc problem, but it may help stabilize the neck,

thus putting less stress on the discs, which may be stressed by excessive

motion.

So, you can give it a try, I would say that prolo is clearly less invasive

than a cervical fusion,

marc heller

Re: RE: Prolotherapy

Have you heard of prolotherapy being used for cervical discs? I have a

family member who may need a second disc surgery, his neurosurgeon

suggesting

from the front this time, with a fusion (he just had the disc trimmed last

time, three years ago). I have sent him to a trusted chiro colleague, with

moderate success. Of course he is anxious to avoid further surgery.

Jocelyn Kirnak, D.C.

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Not sure who posted this. Please be careful with

prolotherapy. I researched it for a while on the web

and found no complaints, but have since spoken to a

health professional in Australia who reported several

horror stories from clients whose pain had skyrocketed

since having this done.

Regards,

Jan, Australia.

> Another treatment that seems to hold great promise

> is called prolotherapy,

> which I just learned about recently on the web. It

> also involves injections

> around the rib area. But in this case: into the

> ligaments not muscles in an

> attempt to ultimately strengthen the ligaments. I

> don't know where to find

> a prolotherapist in my area but in the US there are

> many more than in Canada

> here.

>

> Best,

> --

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Jim:

I've had tremendous success with Prolotherapy.

I was first diagnosed with CP about three years ago. Two docs (a GP

and and OS) told me to give up running and that there was nothing

they could do for me. If I wanted to run, I should load up on

NSAID's beforehand. Pretty helpful, eh?

A PT I saw wasn't much help either.

Anyway, I didn't listen to them.

I had heard about Prolotherapy in this Group, but no one had tried

it, so I became the Guinea pig. I found a good doc in Danbury, CT

that I really liked and, among other treatments, he offered Prolo.

It turns out I had a hip-alignment problem, that was leading to a leg-

length discrepancy, which led to my left knee getting torn up when I

ran. Dr. Cohen (the good doc) fixed my hip problem, which evened-out

my legs, but the knee was still painful because the damage was

already done.

The next step was to repair and strengthen the " lax " ligaments and

tendons in my knee (specifically the attachment of the VMO) with

Prolo. Over the couse of a few months, I went to him 7 or 8 times

for Prolo injections, and it apparently worked.

My knee " feels " better than it did; it used to pop, crack and shift

around. I have resumed running and have been pain-free for almost

two years now.

I am a competitive triathlete and am currently training for the NY

Marathon. I ran 23 miles Saturday morning and my knee felt fine.

So... odds are pretty good I never really had CP. My knee was just

loose from the abuse the 'longer' leg was taking. I truly believe,

however, that most people diagnosed with CP don't have it either.

The majority of knee pain is due to damaged ligaments and tendons, as

was the case with my knee.

Prolotherapy will not (in itself) repair damaged cartilage. It can,

however, repair the connective tissues in the knee and often that

will alleviate the pain that is mistakenly attributed to damaged

cartilage.

There is plenty of info out there at:

http://www.getprolo.com

http://www.sportsprolo.com

If you are healthy in general, with a strong immune system, and you

can find a talented doc, prolotherapy will work.

Hope that helps,

Doug

dougfromct2002@...

P.S. - My doc's website (in case you are interested) is:

http://www.imaginelifewithoutpain.com

> Hello,

>

> Can anyone tell me if they have had any success with Prolotherapy?

>

> Thanks,

>

> Jim

[Guest guest]

<<> Dr. Cohen (the good doc) fixed my hip problem, which evened-out

> my legs, but the knee was still painful because the damage was

> already done.>>

>

Hi Doug-

Did Dr. Cohen do prolotherapy on your hip? I have acetabular dysplasia

bilaterally in my hips, and 40% of my femoral heads are uncovered. This has led

to

much of my patella alignment problems. I know treatment for my hip pain is

minimal. I had an MRI done and my cartilage is beginning to detoriate in my

hips

also. I just don't want to have hip arthroscopy because I've heard it's

really invasive and painful. Ugh! Thanks! Margaret

[Guest guest]

Doug, Ive started some prolo here is eastbay of Ca. I was

wondering what you would reccomend. My doc. is decent but I really dont think

she is

on top of it. Do you know anyone in the bay area you would reccomend. thanx,

Brad

[Guest guest]

Margaret:

Dr. Cohen only used Prolotherapy on my knee -- primarily at the

attachment of the VMO to the patella, but also the medial and lateral

collateral ligaments, ITB, patellar tendon, pes anserinus and lateral

coronary ligament. Basically tightened-up the entire joint.

My hips, once the alignment problem was fixed with a chiropractic-

type adjustment, needed no treatment.

I'm not sure Prolotherapy will help with acetabular dysplasia, but I

would guess that it could. Prolotherapy could help strengthen all

the supporting structures in the hip, which may help alleviate some

of the problems you are having in your hips and knees.

Do your hips dislocate on you? If so, Prolo can definitely help.

I'd shy away from arthroscopy too, until you've exhaused all the

other, less-invasive options.

HTH,

Doug

> <<> Dr. Cohen (the good doc) fixed my hip problem, which evened-out

> > my legs, but the knee was still painful because the damage was

> > already done.>>

> >

>

> Hi Doug-

> Did Dr. Cohen do prolotherapy on your hip? I have acetabular

dysplasia

> bilaterally in my hips, and 40% of my femoral heads are uncovered.

This has led to

> much of my patella alignment problems. I know treatment for my hip

pain is

> minimal. I had an MRI done and my cartilage is beginning to

detoriate in my hips

> also. I just don't want to have hip arthroscopy because I've heard

it's

> really invasive and painful. Ugh! Thanks! Margaret

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Brad:

I live out here in Connecticut, so I can't really recommend anyone.

Have you checked these sites?

http://www.getprolo.com

http://www.aaomed.org

A couple bits of advice:

- If you don't have confidence in the doc, try somewhere else.

- Try to be as much a part of your own medical care as possible.

That is, pay very careful attention to what hurts and when.

You need to help guide the doc as to what needs to be repaired.

- Take care of yourself.

Eat right (plenty of protein and fresh fruits & veggies).

Get plenty of sleep.

Do some light exercise if you can tolerate it (walking is fine).

- Be patient. My Prolo experience lasted several months, but it

worked.

HTH,

Doug

>

>

> Doug, Ive started some prolo here is eastbay of Ca. I

was

> wondering what you would reccomend. My doc. is decent but I really

dont think she is

> on top of it. Do you know anyone in the bay area you would

reccomend. thanx,

> Brad

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

It's funny... prolotherapy isn't well-known, but hundreds of doctors

in the U.S. and around the world provide it.

I'd encourage you (and everyone else) to do your own research.

There's plenty of info (including double-blind, placebo-controlled

studies) out there.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?

cmd=Retrieve & db=PubMed & dopt=Abstract & list_uids=10710805

If that link doesn't work, just go to Google and type in -

prolotherapy placebo - and you'll see it. Here's the conclusion:

CONCLUSION: Prolotherapy injection with 10% dextrose resulted in

clinically and statistically significant improvements in knee

osteoarthritis. Preliminary blinded radiographic readings (1-year

films, with 3-year total follow-up period planned) demonstrated

improvement in several measures of osteoarthritis severity. ACL

laxity, when present in these osteoarthritic patients, improved.

There's plenty of info out there. Some good sources are:

http://www.getprolo.com

http://www.sportsprolo.com

While many of these articles are written by doctors who provide

prolotherapy, it is important to note that they also could provide

cortisone, surgery, etc., but those who have learned of prolotherapy

use it quite a bit.

In my opinion & experience, prolotherapy is very safe and very

effective. It got me back to running and even running the NY

Marathon.

The key, of course, is to find a good doctor. I would definitely

make an appointment w/ the prolotherapy guy near you. See if you

like him and see what he has to say. You can always say " no, thanks "

and walk out the door.

HTH,

Doug

dougfromct2002@...

> I haven't heard of this before. I found a doctor near me who

> specailizes in it. Should I make an appointment? Is it safe?

> Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I just called the doc near me and even an ititial visit is $220??

Before I even get to the procedure, that's just the consultation.

> > I haven't heard of this before. I found a doctor near me who

> > specailizes in it. Should I make an appointment? Is it safe?

> > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

I was just going to make an appointment with the local doctor I found who

provides prolotherapy this spring before I tried surgery when I read this

story about him in the local paper and scared me off;

http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?display=rednews/2004/03/20/build/local/\

30-pp-suit.inc

That doesn't mean I wouldn't recommend trying prolotherapy, it's just that I

got the willies after this.

Mike

MT

Re: Prolotherapy

> I just called the doc near me and even an ititial visit is $220??

> Before I even get to the procedure, that's just the consultation.

>

>

> > > I haven't heard of this before. I found a doctor near me who

> > > specailizes in it. Should I make an appointment? Is it safe?

> > > Thanks!

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Insurance should cover the initial visit. Or at least what they

consider " reasonable and customary. " My first visit with my guy in

Connecticut was about $400.

- D

> > > I haven't heard of this before. I found a doctor near me who

> > > specailizes in it. Should I make an appointment? Is it safe?

> > > Thanks!

[Guest guest]

That'd give me the willies too! Yikes!

Just reinforces the idea that you have to research everything

yourself. Make sure the doctor is well-respected and that you are

comfortable with him/her.

- Doug

> > > > I haven't heard of this before. I found a doctor near me who

> > > > specailizes in it. Should I make an appointment? Is it safe?

> > > > Thanks!

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

i am 27 years old and just started getting prolotherapy myself two

weeks ago.. it could take up to 3-4 treatments before i notice

anything my dr said. the day after my 6 injections, i was hurting

really bad.. the next two days it was like i had new knees... i

couldnt believe how good they felt.. i have had two arthriscopic

surgerys...but still suffer from excruciating pain... by the third

day my knee was hurting again... BUT this was with ONLY one

treatment..i will get them for 3-4 treatments or more if needed... so

i have a good feeling that this will actually help me become pain

free... my advice to u is to try it.. if there is even a slight

chance of you becoming pain free, its worth the shot... most

insurances cover this procedure... call ur insurance company first to

make sure... good luck

[Guest guest]

Very personal experience, thank you. After a very intense marathon

packed year, pelvic pain stopped me from running and even walking more

than a mile. Osteitis Pubis, complicated by hypermobility of symphysis

pubis, (4 mm vertical translation). Three orthopedic opinions convinced

me I didn't want to pursue internal fixation. I've been treating with

Milroy, DC, ND in Hubbard since June. Just had my fifth

injection. I can run 6 miles, hike 12. I'll probably do another xray

in December to check on mobility and restoration of joint space. Will

keep you informed.

BTW, Dr. Milroy has helped me out with a patient suffering chronic

neck pain as well. He does quite a bit of this therapy.

Art

====================================================

JPedersenDC wrote:

> http://www.prolotherapy.com/prolodefine.htm

>

> Who has experience with this protocol?

>

> J. Pedersen DC

>

>

>

>

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