Re: Re: Ever notice raw foodist coming down with CFS?

[Guest guest]

prayerfulmantis wrote:

> A very good reply. I'm in agreement with much of what you

> said. Moving away from SAD and moving into optimal health and if

> something is working for someone then by all means, use it. Raw

> foods do have more nutrient value than cooked foods, there is no

> question on that. I do differ with the opinion that all food must

> be eaten raw and that that is the natural diet for humans.

> As a primitive skills practioner I work with a number of wild

> edible plants and other aspects of a primitive diet. It is

> interesting how historically when a culture obtained pottery

> technology there was almost a simutaneous expansion of population.

> Population density directly corresponds with food availability.

> Pottery allowed cooking which by neutralizing plant toxins enabled

> accessing more foodstuffs from the enviroment. Some plants,

> milkweed for example, have toxins in it (the milky latex is not good

> for you, my wellmeaning friend got sick last week by knowing

> milkweeds were edible but hadn't heard how to properly prepare them)

> which a cooking process neutralizes enabling one to enjoy an

> additional and delicious natural bounty. Acorns is another staple

> crop for a large number of primitive cultures yet without a

> treatment process consuming acorns can lead to kidney failure due to

> the large amount of tannins in them. Personally, I find the taste

> of most raw acorns to be so bitter that I don't think I could ever

> eat enough of them to be a problem. When cooked they are awesome,

> especially with a bit of maple syrup and they are an abundant source

> of calories. The apaches would have had a miserable existence

> without the agave staple providing starch which is unobtainable

> without a rather extensive steam cooking process. There are many

> other plants that are treated likewise. So while cooking does cut

> down on some nutrients, with some foods it has it's advantages. In

> survival living, a natural diet, cooking opens up a wide variety of

> foods which you couldn't otherwise eat.

> Many of our prized medicinal plants would be too harsh for our

> systems were we to consume them raw, heating water and adding the

> herb to the pot enables the goodness to be extracted in a tea so we

> can reap the benefits of that plant. Is this food? I consider it

> to be.

> Then there is seasonal availability. Many of us forget that

> not too long ago fresh produce was not an option during the winter.

> I have a 4 month growing season if I'm lucky, if I'm skilled in cold

> frame and other cold climate methods (relying on high tech products

> such as glass and plastic that remove us from the discussion of

> natural primitive diets) that can be stretched maybe to 7 months.

> What are people to eat without all that? In a natural diet, in the

> fall one collects mass quantities of nuts, tubers, seeds, herbs (for

> making soups and teas), and meat so one can live through the winter

> without starving to death. Otherwise in the north plant foods are

> limited to chipping frozen cattails out of the mud, certain tree

> buds, and gnawing at pine and fir tree inner bark. Preserving and

> drying food enables us to stockpile it for later use. Without

> cooking and preservation technology mankind would be limited to a

> natural habitat in the tropics and up into the subtropics.

> Skills practioners learn from studying the circle of the

> seasons. A natural diet reflects the time of the year and what the

> earth gives us. In the spring, fresh greens and shoots emerge.

> Consumming them detoxifies our bodies from the harsh winter diet.

> In the summer, greens, fruits, and berries support our activities.

> In the fall, as the cold descends and our body needs more

> carbohydrates roots and tubers become available to fill that need.

> Winter we rest and enjoy the harvest we put up in earlier seasons.

> Fats are an important nutrient during those times and in northern

> climates animals are a source of that. The general idea is that as

> the seasons change so do our body's dietary requirements. By

> flowing with the seasonal requirements we stay healthy.

> This may seem odd to people, we are blessed with

> transportation and refridgeration technology that enables us to

> enjoy fresh oranges and other produce in the middle of a snowy

> winter. Why mention it at all? Because without an understanding of

> where humans come from we have no idea of where to head. By

> modeling our diet to fit natural cycles, we optimize our health.

> Ignore nature, ignore the natural cycles, and we effectively remove

> ourselves from the very systems that sustain and support us. We

> all see the results of that in SAD: go to Walmart and see what over

> processed and overcookied food does to peoples health. We have a

> crisis on our hands.

> I salute the efforts of the raw food pioneers and those that

> are staying fit and healthy with it. I very much enjoyed your

> thought provocative post. Having just purchased my first juicer

> I'm entering the realm of juicing fruits and vegetables and like the

> extra boost they give. I like to listen and learn from other

> people's successes and failures. But on the raw food diet I still

> side with moderation. Doesn't make sense to me how outside of a

> tropical climate eating wild fruits and veges one is going to eat a

> natural diet of exclusive raw foods and stay in optimal health.

> Even in the tropics people go to a lot of effort to intregate animal

> products into their diet (ever watch the videos of the amazons

> making their blow guns and hunting monkeys? it isn't easy and if

> they weren't getting something from it they wouldn't be doing it)

> and do cooking. So it's going to take a lot more to convince me

> that raw foods are the exclusive way to go for a healthy diet.

> Guess that makes me the Doubting . I'll still enjoy

> reading about what you folks are experiencing. There will be an

> occasional throat clearing " ahem " every now and then if something is

> said that doesn't seem to jibe.

========================

No problem. Feel free to ahem away. We all do at times. I concur with

what you are saying. Having been one to wildcraft foods and learn the

ways of the native tribes of the past I understand the process. Though

acorns really are only a food for squirrels and chipmunks and the like,

acorn flour is an awesome addition to any bread. I love the stuff but

from an optimal food perspective, it really isn't a food for us two

leggeds. Cooking did bring about preservation of many foods and allowed

the growth of tribes. It also brought along with it many new dis-eases

that we not existant before.

Man's origins are from the tropics where fruits are excessively

abundant, all one needs do it reach up and pick. This is changing thanks

to logging for raising beef for Mc's, BurgerKing and the like.

This is what our system is geared for. Our system is not meant to eat

cooked dead foods. Yes, our bodies are very flexible and tolerant and

can take an enormous amount of dietary abuse before giving us fits and

giving up the ghost so to speak. However, we will experience the pains

and or joys from our choice in diets.

If all men were to truly follow what you are saying about following the

seasons then there just might be a lot less dis-ease, especially if

everyone were to cleanse their bodies during the spring and summer. I do

have to take an opposing view here on the issue of our dietary needs

change with the changing of the seasons. Our dietary needs never change

they are always the same. You need carbohydrates, some fats and

proteins. Nothing in that ever changes. Fats and proteins are extremely

inefficient forms of fuel for the human body, just look at the obesity

and illnesses in people. This comes from too many fats, the wrong kind

of fats and the wrong kind of carbs and too much reliance on protein.

No, our dietary needs do not change with the seasons, our perceived

belief that our dietary needs need changing might change but in truth

our body's needs do not change.

Most of the medicinal plants are too harsh for our bodies is very true.

They are too harsh for our bodies even in tea form too for they are a

stimulant and stimulant stimulate the body. This we know. But what is

not commonly known is that the bodies action is an attempt to rid itself

of the stimulating substance in any way it can. All stimulants are a

poison to the body in the regard as the body does everything in its

power to eliminate it. This uses the bodies own natural vital energy and

is a waste of said energy. Why waste ones vital energy? Would be much

better to fast and allow ones body to heal itself naturally then to

poison it.

All in all I really do appreicate your post and I really do appreciate

your thoughts and insights that you offer to others. Very informative

and well thought out. Quite exemplary in this day of age. Well done. I

salute you on your path. Not everyone is ready to jump right in and be a

raw foodist. This is a given. There is no reason why they can't but not

everyone so chooses to be so bold with their dietary habits. This is why

herbalists, survivalists, aromatherapists, allopaths, homeopaths and the

like exist. Mainly because people don't realize yet that true health

only can come from within, never from without. Healing only comes from

within. Only the body can heal itself. A plant can never heal your body.

Thanks for your post and insight.

--

Peace be with you, Prayerfulmantis.

Don " Quai " Eitner

" Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal

and wakes in man. "

Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean

Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire

The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb

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[Guest guest]

Hi

I think it is that everyone has a choice as to how they get their selves healed.... what path to take (and hopefully it is a healthy one) And the fact that they are taking control of their lives and bodies to become healthier... I believe everything on this planet was given to us for a reason.. I think the perfect diet would also include herbs, but that is me... I feel a higher being gave us not only fruits, veggies, etc but also plants, herbs, etc.

But what I must say here is that I am so proud of this group that we can discuss, disagree, see the other's point of view towards natural healing and all still be family... You all (all the members) are truly great.

Suzi (who is just "trekking" along...) heheprayerfulmantis <prayerfulmantis@...> wrote:

That is a powerful insight, it makes me quite uncomfortable to think too deeply on that one. It makes the herbalist in me go "OUCH". Historically in the 19th century the herbalist became popular as a move away from the poisons used by the MDs. Not too different from what we do today. So IF this concepts holds up to practice then it could be a doorway to a much easier and simpler (many times I think simpler is synomonous with more powerful) healing methodology. That's what you folks are advocating and doing a good job doing so. Grrrrr. Yes, it boils down to choice. People choose to get healthy or they choose not too. Plants don't do it for you, they just help out. Natural processes within the body do the

healing and not the medicine. Some highly effective forms of healing are done on much subtler levels than the gross physical form. However, as healers, one can do a lot of good by being able to shift from level to level using different approaches when needed. This person might need some aloe vera gel on a sunburn, another might benefit more from a particular yoga asana or chi kung maneuver. Another might prosper from some spiritual prayer/shamanic work or even invasive reconstructive surgery on a shattered limb. So as you say, that's why there are a bunch of different practioners doing different modalities of healing. I think most recognize we can't do squat if the person doesn't want to better him/herself and is unwilling to make the changes necessary to do so. Anyway, I thank you much for this discussion. It certainly provides food for thought though it

makes me feel a bit raw around the edges. Hehe, as they say in the book "Everything I Ever Needed to Know was on Star Trek", end each episode with humor.__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

prayerfulmantis wrote:

> I'm though I can hear the drumming for the tarring and

> feathering. SCENE: A mob of angry health food advocates gathered by

> a pile of burning kraft macaroni and cheese boxes, torches and

> pitchforks waving, a shout " There he is! He's not one of us! Get

> him! " A man runs for his life with the rawists in pursuit...

> Weston Price rings a bell as the researcher. Thanks for the

> correction on that.

=========================

Hi

Glad to know the real you, at least your name anyway. No, no tar and

feathering here. We are all part of one big family, the family of man.

We may all have our differences, opinions and ideas but that does not

mean we can't love one another and accept each other for what we stand

for and who we are. We all walk the same path, believe it or not, it is

just how we choose to view the path that makes it seem different from

another's choice.

Thanks for giving us a name and for being you.

--

Peace be with you, Chris.

Don " Quai " Eitner

" Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal

and wakes in man. "

Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean

Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire

The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb

--

In compliance with the highest standards of Universal Law, this email has been

thoroughly disinfected and purified in the solar flares of the sun.

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Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.9/39 - Release Date: 7/4/05