Guest guest Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 kitcurtin wrote: > --- > Hi Don, > > Well...the thing is we are not plants nor animals. And, I hear ya on > the Natural Laws. But, maybe you missed my post some months ago. > It drives me a little nuts when humans get compared to ruminants and > apes, elephants, giraffes, etc. > > > For good or bad, it is eating meat that made us 'human'...probably > goes for " cooked " , too, but the research didn't include it. > > In an evolutionary nutshell: > By concentrating our nutritional source (ie. meat) there was less need > for the huge digestive system that we had as apes. It allowed our > lungs to fill that space, feeding oxygen to our brain and expanding > our brain size. Also, then freed us up for other pursuits...like > growing our own food, painting on cave walls, etc. and not foraging. > So, you're present ability to think, study and discuss and the freedom > to choose raw or cooked, meat or vegetarian, is directly due to this > evolution and meat eating. Choice comes from the ability to reason, > the extent of this ability to reason comes from brainsize. So you see > meat, and cooked foods (I'll include as well) are actually the true > diet of " man " it what gave us the brainsize to choose to now eat raw > and vegetarian, the diet we had when we were apes. I don't have a > problem with the choices anyone makes, but I might see a problem in > balance and moderation. Anyway I see your writing as ignoring a few > facts (or maybe just uninformed about them)and only choosing the ones > that suit your viewpoint. Uh-oh...now it's sounding like evolution > vs. creationism (I'll create it like I see fit) ;-) > > > > And, you're right we only heal from within...the energy from within. > One can move and add energy.... one adds energy when one eats raw > food. One adds energy with herbs. If adding energy assists the body > to heal ....well, then.... > It's not so much nitpicking as being stuck in semantics and married to > a theory's doctrines. BTW: Praticing Qigong is moving the energy > within....and using Earth and Air energy....so nitpick away...it's the > same. Fasting is moving the energy within. > > So, you're contradicting yourself. You call fasting the true healer > but, also, only the body as the true healer. I'll agree with the last > half only add the mind and the spirit as well. Fasting is merely a > 'tool' ,a means, towards healing....as are herbs, TCM, Ayurveda,or any > other discipline. Fasting, nor any other 'tool', is not the mind, nor > the body,the spirit, not any of the energy within....it is an > 'exercise' in order to heal...it is not the only, nor the definitive, > exercise. Mind, body, spirit (energies) combined is the only true > healer. So to call your 'tool' the only tool is extremely > narrow-sighted and quite invalidating to any other healers....or any > person that chooses something different. > > As far as spiritual, the bottom line is that absolutely everything we > do is spiritual since you cannot separate the spirit from the body > ....until the body dies. I realize you are speaking of a loftier > spiritualism. > > And, radical fundamentalim, I see as adopting a theory and accepting > no others, and demanding that everyone else adopt the theory or be > damned to .....whatever. Sorry, Don, but that is how the > conversation sounds. > > I do agree that the cause must always be addressed...otherwise one is > only patching the problem.....intake (air, water,food), digestion, > absorption (all intake used to max), and elimination all running > smoothly to their maximum effectiveness is the key. > > All the best, > Kit ======================== Hi Kit, No I didn't miss that post. Whether we like it or not we are considered along with all other animal species, particularly mammals. And we all are part of nature on this planet and cannot remove ourselves from natural laws. This is true that we don't have the huge gut like ruminants and gorillas, however, man began as a frugivore and that is the proper diet for the human species. Fruits and tender leafy greens. Now if I understand what you are stating then you believe that we are descended from apes. Personally, I don't believe in that theory as there is no proof nor will there ever be (just my opinion here). Man did not start out eating meat. I fail to see how meat can possibly be nutritive to the human body. I also do not see where it has ever been proven that it is nutritive to the human body either as there is little to nothing that the human body can utilize from flesh. Unless you personally run down an antelope or deer and kill it and eat on the spot for the living enzymes. Man never was and never will be a carnivore. Just not the nature of our bodies. Our bodies are not designed for meat eating and they have not evolved for it. Apes and such with huge guts eat lots of leaves and such. Man optimal diet is fruits that do not require a long transit time in the digestive tube and require little effort for digestion. I must disagree with you on the causation of our brainsize. It just doesn't jell, so to speak. Elephants have a much larger brain than humans and they have never had to resort to eating meat. Neither have whales. Cooked foods create death and dis-ease as does eating meat. Come on Kit, you see it every day. Cooked foods act just like a poison, creating a condition known as digestive leucocytosis. Proven fact that cooked foods are not the natural diet of man. Nobody obtains any nutrients from eating cooked foods. Nobody as there are no nutrients in cooked foods. Mans intestines are way too long for digesting meat. Look at true carnivores in nature Kit, they have very short digestive tubes as compared to man. Eating meat as mans optimum food does not jell either. This theory has been disproved over and over again. One only need look at the human digestive system and nature to truly see what is the ideal food for man. Man stands on his legs, Kit for a reason. So he can reach. What does man reach for? Other than the stars he reaches for his food, fruit which grows just about the right height for him to pluck. Mans beginnings were in a very warm tropical climate. There was abundant fruit. Man only began eating meat when he moved away to colder climates and could not obtain fruit. Man was never meant to be a meat eater. No, I am not contradiciting myself here Kit. Yes, Qigong is moving the energy within but in practicing Qigong you are doing something besides allowing your body physical rest. Qigong does not heal. Fasting moves the energy within but it is your body that does the moving not you. Only fasting can truly heal by allowing your body physiological rest. That is the only way a person can truly heal. I feel that you misunderstand the true nature of fasting in healing Kit. Fasting is you getting out of the way and allowing your body to rest and do what it needs to do to heal itself without any intervention on your part. You don't do anything other than get out of the way and allow nature to do what nature does perfectly everytime. Very different from practicing Qigong. Yes, everything we do is spiritual in nature. That is the nature of man. Knowledge of ourselves as being. As for radical fundamentalism, Kit, there is only one way to true health. No I do not even pretend to believe that I have the only way. You misunderstand, nature has and is the only way to true health. Not man and his advanced so called wisdom and knowledge of life. I hold no monopoly over nature Kit. No man does. It is not I that am offering true health, I am only educating others into what constitutes true health. I offer wisdom and knowledge that has been thoroughly investigated, tested and found completely sound as compared to any other form of so called healing. Nature does not adhere to medical model thinking as practitioners of TCM, Ayurveda, allopathy, herbalism, aromatherapy, etc.(Yes Kit, you do work within the medical model of thinking). With nature there is no need for a diagnosis. Nature does that on her own. Nature knows exactly what is needed every time for any person with any affliction. The body has its own intelligence and that intelligence follows implicitly the laws of nature. It is man and his so called wisdom and thoughts that mess with those laws and create a less than perfect body. Man who thinks he knows better than nature what man needs. Mans own ego is mans downfall. Nature has her way of humbling even the largest of egos. I do not call nature a tool. Fasting is not a tool it is nature Kit. Nothing more and nothing less but it is the only true way to total and true health. Nobody has ever obtained true health any other way. No one will ever obtain a completely healthy body, mind, spirit by eating cooked foods, meat, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, etc. It will never happen. No one will ever obtain true health thru the use of herbs either. Yes they can be considered a tool but not to be taken internally. They are harmful to the organism as they are toxic. It takes a lot to change the paradigm one believes in. To see outside the box of ones perception and to really look at nature and the laws of nature. The laws of nature are not something that anyone has control over. Nature is not something that anyonehas specific claims to. It is and we are subject to the laws of nature and we are classified right along with all the rest of life on this planet. Our closest relative are the Bonobos. They resemble us much more closely than the gorillas or chimps and they are frugivores. Their digestive system is almost exactly like that of man. You can read about the Bonobos. Yes, we are higher on the evolutionary ladder because of our will. This has little to do with brainsize by the by. Man has will power, choice. We can choose to live in harmony with nature and natures laws or we can choose not to. Either way it is all choice. No radical fundamentalism or anything else. So please don't misunderstand me Kit, I am not saying I have the only way, I am showing people and teaching that there is a much better way, a much simpler way and a more natural way to true health. No medicines (yes herbs are classified in this category as are homeopathic remedies), no pins, no needles, no diagnosis, just getting out of the way and allow nature to do what man cannot. -- Peace be with you, Kit. Don " Quai " Eitner " Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal and wakes in man. " Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 6, 2005 Report Share Posted August 6, 2005 I have got to disagree here Don. My goats will search out certain plants (herbs) when they need to and eat them (taken internally).. whether it be echinacea, mint, pine, or whatever... they know what they need when they need it. I could offer it when they are in good health and they would turn up their noses to it..Don Quai <mysticalherbalist@...> wrote: No one will ever obtain true health thru the use of herbs either. Yes they can be considered a tool but not to be taken internally. They are harmful to the organism as they are toxic. Suzi What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. www.onegrp.com/?mamanott organic cosmetics http://suziesgoats.wholefoodfarmacy.com/ Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Well, if nature and animals know more than us.....then they seem to know when they need herbs as well as when they need to fast or eat or drink... (JMO)kitcurtin <kitcurtin@...> wrote: That's interesting Suzi. This is how the Chinese came about studyingherbs thousands of years ago....by observing the habits of animals. Suzi What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. www.onegrp.com/?mamanott organic cosmetics http://suziesgoats.wholefoodfarmacy.com/ Start your day with - make it your home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Suzanne wrote: > I have got to disagree here Don. My goats will search out certain > plants (herbs) when they need to and eat them (taken internally).. > whether it be echinacea, mint, pine, or whatever... they know what > they need when they need it. I could offer it when they are in good > health and they would turn up their noses to it.. > > *//* ============================= Hi Suzi, And why do your goats need to seek out various plants and what not? If herbs were meant for you don't you think you would instinctively know which ones to go find and take without all the learning? Most animals in the wild will seek out certain plants, as you say, when they have a sour stomach. Their digestive systems are quite different from ours. Also, most animals in the wild do not suffer from dis-eases. Almost all domesticated animals suffer from degenrative diseases due to being fed what is not natural for them. Do your goats eat what they would in nature all the time Suzi? Could this be a reason why they need to seek out various herbs periodically? Yes you could offer it to them when they are in health but have you? -- Peace be with you, Don " Quai " Eitner " Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal and wakes in man. " Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 kitcurtin wrote: > > Hi Don, > > Well...we should probably take this offlist about now...or we'll have > to agree to disagree. > > Except, I'll agree, we are not carnivores, but omnivores. > > This is becoming a 'religion vs. science' discussion. I don't have a > problem with anyone's 'religion' but I can't accept the 'religious' > findings as facts. And, comparing man to animals doesn't work for me > either....in fact I've never seen it ever logically work. > > > The elephant's brain makes up about 0.08 percent of the total body > weight.... > http://natureinstitute.org/pub/ic/ic5/elephant.htm > > The human brain makes up 2% of the body's total weight, but uses up > 20% of the body's oxygen supply. > http://schools.cbe.ab.ca/b143/frankensite_clean/monster/body_sys/brain_system.ht\ m > > An elephant's brain weighs about five times more than a human brain > but it's body weighs 100 times more than ours. > http://firstscience.com/SITE/factfile/factfile461_480.asp > > The rest of my previous reasonings stand, I fear I'd just be repeating > myself at this point. > > We should go now in peace...don't you think...? > :-)Kit ================================ Hi Kit, I agree that we are going to have to disagree again. From your perspective and from my perspective neither theory seems to hold much water. However, I look around at those who follow your line of thought, which was my own not too long ago, and I see much illness and suffering. This is not something I see with people who follow the laws of nature and eat a spieces appropriate diet. And yes we are a species. But nevertheless, we will agree to disagree and let it go at that. -- Peace be with you, Kit. Don " Quai " Eitner " Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal and wakes in man. " Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 They have access to most herbs all the time.(they have 10 acres).. and others periodically, which they do or don't take ... sometimes some do and others don't... they also get cracked corn, dried molasses (which sometimes they gobble up and other times they ignore it) They do have water access - a pond, a trough, plain, and a trough to which I add acv. They get cloves, pumpkin, garlic and black walnut sprinkled on their food quarterly for parasite control. By the way the sheep and donkey do the same. SuziDon Quai <mysticalherbalist@...> wrote: Also, most animals in the wild do not suffer from dis-eases. Almost all domesticated animals suffer from degenrative diseases due to being fed what is not natural for them. Do your goats eat what they would in nature all the time Suzi? Could this be a reason why they need to seek out various herbs periodically? Yes you could offer it to them when they are in health but have you? for Mobile Take with you! Check email on your mobile phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 7, 2005 Report Share Posted August 7, 2005 Suzanne wrote: > They have access to most herbs all the time.(they have 10 acres).. and > others periodically, which they do or don't take ... sometimes some do > and others don't... they also get cracked corn, dried molasses (which > sometimes they gobble up and other times they ignore it) > They do have water access - a pond, a trough, plain, and a trough to > which I add acv. > They get cloves, pumpkin, garlic and black walnut sprinkled on their > food quarterly for parasite control. By the way the sheep and donkey > do the same. > Suzi ========================= Correct and these are domesticated animals and not animals in the wild. Therefore, they are not eating a species appropriate diet and living in accordance with natural laws but with humans and their imposed choices upon them. Which may explain their necessity of having to seek out your herb patch periodically. -- Peace be with you, Suzi. Don " Quai " Eitner " Spirit sleeps in the mineral, breathes in the vegetable, dreams in the animal and wakes in man. " Nearly all men die of their remedies, and not of their illnesses. ~Jean Baptiste Molière, Le Malade Imaginaire The obstacle is the path. ~Zen Proverb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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