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I read that, too, Suzi, peppermint oil capsules are used in Europe to

cleanse the GB.

Kit

> Welcome .

> On your diet, are your grains sprouted? is your soy organic?

> Cut down on oil if you are using any... also, if not a flush, Catnip

nourishes the stomach and nerves. It calms the nervous system and is

used also for digestion. Catnip herb has also been used to treat

inflammation and help to eliminate toxins and dissolve stones in the

gall bladder.

> A number of studies indicate that peppermint may aid in reducing the

size of gallstones and thus help some people avoid surgery. Also known

as a muscle relaxant and reduces inflammation. Try some peppermint tea.

>

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Kit,

My DOM does use raw herbs to make into tea, powders, and some pills.

I haven't had any attacks since my last attack last Friday. I haven't

been eating very much, but what I am eating is fairly healthy. I've

gotten twinges on my both my right and left sides, but I wouldn't

call it " pain " after experiencing multiple gallbladder attacks this

summer. I'm trying to figure out how to afford going to my DOM after

the doctor's bill and car repairs in the same week. But, I'll get to

her as soon as I can. My treatment with her helped tremendously last

month and I know she will help me feel better.

>

>

> Hi ,

>

> Well, the Chuan Lian Zi thru me at first, since it is a single

herb.

>

> I hunted around some more and found the ingredients in GB 6. It's

> obviously a proprietary formula...in as much as it's in a pill

form.

>

> It should work. I might use something different...... that's why

they

> call TCM a healing art..... still, only with knowing the particulars

> of you and the problem. I mostly do custom formulas in the school

clinic.

>

> Does your DOM do " raw " herbs? ....that is, the whole herb...

> ...or powders? ....or pills?

>

> Changing your diet will help tremendously. And, yes I'd get some

> support from your DOM... you can help spead the healing and get it

> under control til your new way of eating takes over.

>

> After, you get the acute stuff under control a good detox of the

liver

> and colon is important to improve the GB function.

>

> Have you had any more attacks?

>

> I'm assuming there is no inflammation...or they would have been more

> urgent about treatment in the ER.

>

> Kit

>

>

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Kit,

I did read about apples. I've been eating lots of apples, organic

applesauce and drinking organic apple juice. Yes, I do have a juicer

and my local health food grocer is my new favorite place to shop. I am

still trying to figure out what to do with some of this food when I get

it home. I've never been much for cooking or food preparation, and the

tastes are very new.

I don't remember if the ER said anything about inflammation. I was

drugged and tired when they told me I had gallstones. I don't have any

infection at this time. The integrative doctor made sure I knew the

signs to go to the surgeon and get my gallbladder removed. I'm still

trying to avoid that.

>

>

> If you have an attack drink a tablespoon of apple cider in a glass of

> apple juice that should help the pain quickly. Also, apple juice

> helps soften gallstones.

>

> The Chinese herbs that will dissolve them, too.

>

> They didn't say anything about inflammation in the ER, did they?

>

> Kit

>

>

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Kit,

Unfortunately, my " previous " eating habits were high in dairy, sugar,

refined carbohydrates and fats. I love sandwiches at deli/sandwich

shops and drank a 32 oz cup of coke or pepsi almost daily for about 2

years. I love cheese and chocolate. Alas, that is no more. No more

dairy, sugar, refined carbohydrates and very little fat. No more

pepsi and no more sandwiches, let alone sandwiches with cheese and

nice fatning dressings! I'm getting to know fruits and whole grains.

I am still suspiciously eyeing vegetables. I need to figure out what

to do with them. I mean, you don't just pick up a head of lettuce and

start chewing!

>

>

> ,

>

> Do you have a juicer?

>

> If you can do it....about 75% raw foods would be good. Homemade

> uncooked applesauce...shredded beets. ...pears....

>

> BTW: Were you a big on sugar in your ,ahem, previous life?

> People that eat lotsa sugar are more prone to gallstones.

>

> Kit

>

>

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There are life threatening GB conditions. Inflammation should always

get immediate treatment.

If one is having chronic GB problems it is important to inform oneself

of how the GB works, symptoms, causes, cures...it doesn't have to mean

surgery or allopathic medicine.....sometimes it might mean avoiding

solid food for a few days....but please find out what are the causes

and remove them.

I hear you on the prescription grade painkiller...my first attack of

kidney stones required it...in order to continue to not pass out and

be conscious enough to continue to drink water to pass them.

Herbs followed and acupuncture took care of subsequent attack....I

cleaned up my act, after that.

Kit

> Kathy,

> OUCH!!!! I believe there is a time to have the surgery, and it

> certainly sounds like yours was necessary. My last attack was on my

> front and back and would not go away. I couldn't sit up or lay down

> comfortably because of where the pain was. I definitely needed a

> hospital grade pain killer.

>

>

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Ask her if she'd consider just doing just an Herbal Consultation.

Tell her your situation and that you'd really like to be taking the

best herbal formula possible ....but a full charge would preclude

that. If that doesn't work ask if she has any other suggestions.

Your getting some really good suggestions from the list as well.

Good sign that your not having any more attacks. Do you ever have

any problems with nausea?

Kit

> Kit,

> My DOM does use raw herbs to make into tea, powders, and some pills.

> I haven't had any attacks since my last attack last Friday. I haven't

> been eating very much, but what I am eating is fairly healthy. I've

> gotten twinges on my both my right and left sides, but I wouldn't

> call it " pain " after experiencing multiple gallbladder attacks this

> summer. I'm trying to figure out how to afford going to my DOM after

> the doctor's bill and car repairs in the same week. But, I'll get to

> her as soon as I can. My treatment with her helped tremendously last

> month and I know she will help me feel better.

>

>

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When you're home, I'd suggest juicing your own apples, if you're not

already. Also, juice beet and pear. You can add lemon to the beet

, if you like.

You can also use castor oil packs for pain...if any returns.

The directions for the pack is in the files.

Yes, please avoid surgery...we're pullin' for ya.

Kit

> Kit,

> I did read about apples. I've been eating lots of apples, organic

> applesauce and drinking organic apple juice. Yes, I do have a juicer

> and my local health food grocer is my new favorite place to shop. I am

> still trying to figure out what to do with some of this food when I get

> it home. I've never been much for cooking or food preparation, and the

> tastes are very new.

>

> I don't remember if the ER said anything about inflammation. I was

> drugged and tired when they told me I had gallstones. I don't have any

> infection at this time. The integrative doctor made sure I knew the

> signs to go to the surgeon and get my gallbladder removed. I'm still

> trying to avoid that.

>

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What to do with lettuce?! , you're cute!! Stick around, you'll

find out!

It's good that you're leaving your old ways behind...sometimes it

takes that 'wake up call'. You could start by taking small glasses

of vegetable juices.....not the lettuce. ;-) If you need to get used

to different tastes.

Suzi and others are always putting up good recipes.... raw food oriented.

The net contains a wealth of great recipes...one no longer needs a

recipe book!!

Start with your fave vegetable, google it and work from there.

Before you know it ....you'll be craving the good stuff.

I find the Cuisinart another good tool. But then I like gadgets!

Kit

> Kit,

> Unfortunately, my " previous " eating habits were high in dairy, sugar,

> refined carbohydrates and fats. I love sandwiches at deli/sandwich

> shops and drank a 32 oz cup of coke or pepsi almost daily for about 2

> years. I love cheese and chocolate. Alas, that is no more. No more

> dairy, sugar, refined carbohydrates and very little fat. No more

> pepsi and no more sandwiches, let alone sandwiches with cheese and

> nice fatning dressings! I'm getting to know fruits and whole grains.

> I am still suspiciously eyeing vegetables. I need to figure out what

> to do with them. I mean, you don't just pick up a head of lettuce and

> start chewing!

>

>

>

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Kit,

I might be able to work something out with my DOM. I've known her for

about 5 years. I haven't had too many problems with nausea. I have

tended to go straight to vomitting. I have kept everything down since I

changed my diet last week and have not been eating much. I have been

able to eat things like eggs, oatmeal, and Subway chicken breast

sandwiches without cheese (or mayo) without a problem. I'll have to get

my hospital report and copies of the ultrasound.

>

> Ask her if she'd consider just doing just an Herbal Consultation.

> Tell her your situation and that you'd really like to be taking the

> best herbal formula possible ....but a full charge would preclude

> that. If that doesn't work ask if she has any other suggestions.

>

> Your getting some really good suggestions from the list as well.

>

> Good sign that your not having any more attacks. Do you ever have

> any problems with nausea?

>

> Kit

>

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Kit,

I like carrot juice. I like Ceasar salad. I just need to find a much

healthier way to eat salads without cheese, meat, or as much fat. I

like vegetables on my Subway sandwiches... I am trying to figure out

where the sandwich is if you don't have meat or cheese.

It sounds like many people with gallbladder problems need to change

their diet when they get theirs out. I might as well change my diet

now and leave it in. In that regard, I am considering this a

blessing. I know how many years I have known better but not done

better for whatever reason. It is a hard introduction, though, when

you can't " slip " with favorite foods without those foods causing you

great pain. I eat something " safe " (and healthy) or I go hungry until

I figure out what " safe " thing I want.

>

> What to do with lettuce?! , you're cute!! Stick around, you'll

> find out!

>

> It's good that you're leaving your old ways behind...sometimes it

> takes that 'wake up call'. You could start by taking small

glasses

> of vegetable juices.....not the lettuce. ;-) If you need to get used

> to different tastes.

>

> Suzi and others are always putting up good recipes.... raw food

oriented.

>

> The net contains a wealth of great recipes...one no longer needs a

> recipe book!!

>

> Start with your fave vegetable, google it and work from there.

>

> Before you know it ....you'll be craving the good stuff.

>

> I find the Cuisinart another good tool. But then I like gadgets!

>

> Kit

>

>

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I know she will help me feel better

Ah, but can she cure you? No, only your body can cure your body. No herb, mineral, pill, vitamin, whatever can cure you. Only fresh fruits and vegetables eaten in their natural state can give your body what it needs to cure itself.

Shari

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Yummy, carrot juice!

You can add mixes...like parsley, beet, lemon, celery.

There are lots of alternative meat & cheese,'facsimiles' out there.

Suzi has put up some seed cheese recipes, then there's tofu... just

don't depend on it for a main protein source. If you freeze it ...it

gives it a more chewy texture. You can buy 'flavored' tofu at some

health food stores.

Any sort of fermented soy is good and safe to eat...tempeh, miso,

natto, soy sauce.

I put organic chicken on my salads and even sometimes will eat hard

cheese if it comes on the salad....I love ceasar salads as well.

Just treat them more like flavorings than your main calorie source.

Ever have a tomato and onion sandwich? Mmmmm. Or, Cucumber sandwich?

Yum. Once you get your diet under control an occasional

'treat' might be good for your psyche. You are in a transitional

period... remember change is not easy. But it will sure be worth it

to avoid this surgery.

Do you use google much?

I love checking out recipes. You can check out the files section,

here, under Food and Drink Recipes.

There's a whole new wide wonderful world out there...you'll love it...

welcome to it!!

Kit

> Kit,

> I like carrot juice. I like Ceasar salad. I just need to find a much

> healthier way to eat salads without cheese, meat, or as much fat. I

> like vegetables on my Subway sandwiches... I am trying to figure out

> where the sandwich is if you don't have meat or cheese.

>

> It sounds like many people with gallbladder problems need to change

> their diet when they get theirs out. I might as well change my diet

> now and leave it in. In that regard, I am considering this a

> blessing. I know how many years I have known better but not done

> better for whatever reason. It is a hard introduction, though, when

> you can't " slip " with favorite foods without those foods causing you

> great pain. I eat something " safe " (and healthy) or I go hungry until

> I figure out what " safe " thing I want.

>

>

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Kit,

I love the vegies on my Subway sandwich! So far, I am only going there

for those " lost without you " (old eating habits) days where I am

probably going to starve before I figure what else to eat. Their

chicken breast sandwich hasn't caused problems, but I'm getting bored

and I know I need to rise above the last remnant of old eating habits.

>

> I hope she will. Good idea to get the hospital info.

>

> Lotsa veggies on those Subways, right?

>

> Kit

>

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Shari,

I have been reading health and nutrition books for years and believe

the body can heal if we just get out of its way. We have to stop doing

the things that promote disease and start providing the nutritional

support for healing. I know my DOM does not possess the external power

to heal me. She is very good about getting energies lined up and

blockages functioning again so that my body has the opportunity to do

its thing. So, I know she can help me feel better while my body heals.

I will take your stance on fruits and vegetables seriously. I have

stopped eating so much that was a part of my diet just a few weeks ago.

I'm doing okay with fruit, but there are some vegetables that I digest

more easily when they are juiced or lightly steamed. I need to learn

how to eat them and how to prepare more vegetables for myself and I

need to acquire an established taste for them.

I have heard that whole grains are good for gallbladders. In any case,

they are better than refined white flour, refined sugar, dairy, soda,

processed lunch meats and everything else I have given up. Learning new

eating habits is a process of learning what works, and how to prepare

it. Nutrition is a very individual things that changes on a daily basis

as we are living organisisms adjusting to our internal and external

environments.

> I know she will help me feel better

>

> Ah, but can she cure you? No, only your body can cure your body. No

herb, mineral, pill, vitamin, whatever can cure you. Only fresh fruits

and vegetables eaten in their natural state can give your body what it

needs to cure itself.

>

> Shari

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Kit,

I am being introduced to tofu. So far, I don't like it. I am trying

it in frozen vegan meals as those at least were prepared by someone

who knows how to cook. I'm not planning on going vegan in the long

run. I like lean, white meats like chicken. I would also like to

eventually return to an occational sandwich or using cheese more like

a seasoning. My favorite pizza has a lot of vegetables on it.

Unfortunately, the crust is white flour and I'm not eating dairy at

all right now because I believe that is one of my trigger foods. My

long term goal is to find a healthy style of eating I can live with.

I may find I don't want the things I have enjoyed in the past, but I

want to believe that at some point I will have the option of an

occational weekend treat.

> > Kit,

> > I like carrot juice. I like Ceasar salad. I just need to find a

much

> > healthier way to eat salads without cheese, meat, or as much fat.

I

> > like vegetables on my Subway sandwiches... I am trying to figure

out

> > where the sandwich is if you don't have meat or cheese.

> >

> > It sounds like many people with gallbladder problems need to

change

> > their diet when they get theirs out. I might as well change my

diet

> > now and leave it in. In that regard, I am considering this a

> > blessing. I know how many years I have known better but not done

> > better for whatever reason. It is a hard introduction, though,

when

> > you can't " slip " with favorite foods without those foods causing

you

> > great pain. I eat something " safe " (and healthy) or I go hungry

until

> > I figure out what " safe " thing I want.

> >

> >

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" Nutrition is a very individual things that changes on a daily basis

as we are living organisisms adjusting to our internal and external

environments. "

I like and agree with your viewpoints, ...I have faith that you

will do well in your endeavors towards healing.

You have already taken large strides.

Congratulations!

Kit

> Shari,

> I have been reading health and nutrition books for years and believe

> the body can heal if we just get out of its way. We have to stop doing

> the things that promote disease and start providing the nutritional

> support for healing. I know my DOM does not possess the external power

> to heal me. She is very good about getting energies lined up and

> blockages functioning again so that my body has the opportunity to do

> its thing. So, I know she can help me feel better while my body heals.

>

> I will take your stance on fruits and vegetables seriously. I have

> stopped eating so much that was a part of my diet just a few weeks ago.

> I'm doing okay with fruit, but there are some vegetables that I digest

> more easily when they are juiced or lightly steamed. I need to learn

> how to eat them and how to prepare more vegetables for myself and I

> need to acquire an established taste for them.

>

> I have heard that whole grains are good for gallbladders. In any case,

> they are better than refined white flour, refined sugar, dairy, soda,

> processed lunch meats and everything else I have given up. Learning new

> eating habits is a process of learning what works, and how to prepare

> it. Nutrition is a very individual things that changes on a daily basis

> as we are living organisisms adjusting to our internal and external

> environments.

>

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I had to go to the emergency room several years ago

with gall problems. The doctors wanted me to undergo

emergency surgery taking out the gallbladder. I did

not believe that was the best option for me. My

midwife told me of a fast to try. I went on a four day

fast drinking applejuice and eating applesauce and

taking certain herbs and following the rest she had

told me, then on the third day the stones past through

my bowels. I also used enemas with great success

during the fast. The amount of stones that came out

was extremely alarming, very very scary.

Maybe something I have said will help you out. Corrine

--- trobertabq <TrobertABQ@...> wrote:

> I was diagnosed with gallstones last week after

> having a gallbladder

> attack that landed me in the ER. I decided to seek

> the opinion of an

> integrative doctor who would consider other options

> besides/in addition

> to surgery. I'm not convinced that I want to live

> without a gallbladder

> at this time. She prescribed a Chinese Traditional

> Formula by Health

> Concerns called GB-6. I am also changing my diet to

> one that is

> primarily whole grains, fruit, vegetables, soy, with

> no dairy, sugar,

> cholesterol, etc. I wanted to know if anyone has had

> a positive

> experience dissolving gallstones through herbal and

> dietary

> interventions. I have heard about the " flush " but am

> not including this

> practice at this time since it was not recommended

> by my doctor.

>

>

>

>

>

__________________________________________________

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- progress, not perfection. You're doing great cutting out all those nasty things.

Interesting that grains would be good for gall bladder. I'll dig up Doug Graham's book "Grain Damage" and see if it says anything about grains and gall bladder.

Shari

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Tofu's not too exciting unless in the right recipe. Surpisingly, one

of the best ways was in BBQ in a BBQ cookoff, no less.....guess that

kinda competition really gets ya workin'. ;-) ...looking for

recipes,if that's your thing, it's the ole experimental cook, I used

to be....I still love lookin' even when not cookin'!!!

There are lots of foods I can't eat. And, occasionally I indulge know

ing that I will pay the next day....I have pain issues.

I've never been much of a pizza fan...except maybe chicken pesto pizza

.....when you're better, you can also 'sin' occasionally maybe with a

thin crust. You may even find that the way you feel afterwards will

make you want them less and less. Or, you might want to experiment at

some point and try making a living crust. I have a raw foods book

with a couple of different pizza crusts 'cooked' in the dehydrator.

(I lucked into a cabinet model at a swap meet).

Kit

> Kit,

> I am being introduced to tofu. So far, I don't like it. I am trying

> it in frozen vegan meals as those at least were prepared by someone

> who knows how to cook. I'm not planning on going vegan in the long

> run. I like lean, white meats like chicken. I would also like to

> eventually return to an occational sandwich or using cheese more like

> a seasoning. My favorite pizza has a lot of vegetables on it.

> Unfortunately, the crust is white flour and I'm not eating dairy at

> all right now because I believe that is one of my trigger foods. My

> long term goal is to find a healthy style of eating I can live with.

> I may find I don't want the things I have enjoyed in the past, but I

> want to believe that at some point I will have the option of an

> occational weekend treat.

>

>

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Corrine,

That sounds like a good way to go....they suggest something similiar,

too, in " Prescription of Nutritional Healing " Balch and Balch....for

inflammation...I'm guessing that's why they called in an emergency....?

No solid foods for three days .... and only juices, homemade

applesauce ....occaasionally with beet and pear juice.

I've read coffee enemas....is that what you used?

Kit

> I had to go to the emergency room several years ago

> with gall problems. The doctors wanted me to undergo

> emergency surgery taking out the gallbladder. I did

> not believe that was the best option for me. My

> midwife told me of a fast to try. I went on a four day

> fast drinking applejuice and eating applesauce and

> taking certain herbs and following the rest she had

> told me, then on the third day the stones past through

> my bowels. I also used enemas with great success

> during the fast. The amount of stones that came out

> was extremely alarming, very very scary.

> Maybe something I have said will help you out. Corrine

>

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Kit,

Thanks! : ) I feel uplifted by the positive intentions and wonderful

information provided by this group, and by you specifically. You have

all been very supportive in encouraging me to continue to seek out

more holistic alternatives. Perhaps I would do best to focus on

health and healing, and see this as an opportunity for change and

growth instead of focusing on having a sick gallbladder. It is only

one tiny organ, but man, can it cause a big pain when it isn't happy!

> > Shari,

> > I have been reading health and nutrition books for years and

believe

> > the body can heal if we just get out of its way. We have to stop

doing

> > the things that promote disease and start providing the

nutritional

> > support for healing. I know my DOM does not possess the external

power

> > to heal me. She is very good about getting energies lined up and

> > blockages functioning again so that my body has the opportunity

to do

> > its thing. So, I know she can help me feel better while my body

heals.

> >

> > I will take your stance on fruits and vegetables seriously. I

have

> > stopped eating so much that was a part of my diet just a few

weeks ago.

> > I'm doing okay with fruit, but there are some vegetables that I

digest

> > more easily when they are juiced or lightly steamed. I need to

learn

> > how to eat them and how to prepare more vegetables for myself and

I

> > need to acquire an established taste for them.

> >

> > I have heard that whole grains are good for gallbladders. In any

case,

> > they are better than refined white flour, refined sugar, dairy,

soda,

> > processed lunch meats and everything else I have given up.

Learning new

> > eating habits is a process of learning what works, and how to

prepare

> > it. Nutrition is a very individual things that changes on a daily

basis

> > as we are living organisisms adjusting to our internal and

external

> > environments.

> >

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So sorry to hear about such unpleasantry and glad you feel better!

Do you know what you might have eaten inadvertantly to cause this to happen?

Previous emails note apple juice/applesauce flushes for healing. A

trustworthy

doctor once told me that eventually most people who suffer end up having the

gall bladder removed (sorry to say this). That is what happened to me after

20

years of coping w/ a touchy gall bladder. Note that in previous posts,

heart attacks

and pancreatitis have been linked to gall bladder problems; and maybe we can

find

out more about these.

And what is fundoplasty surgery???? Could this be linked to the incident?

Sue

=====================

I am looking forward to this discussion thread, as about 10 days ago I was

in the emergency room with extreme abdominal pain. I was on the kitchen

floor retching and writhing. I cannot throw up because of the fundoplasty

surgery about 3 years ago. Marilyn and I had been fighting, as people do,

and she had no mercy. I took myself to the ER, and they said that my gall

bladder was extremely swollen. Had a sonagram, which support it. No stones

to speak of, just granules, like sand. I did the flush two nights in a row.

The first night was misery. Severe nausea and increased diahrea. Second

night was fine. No negative results. And the pain is almost all gone. Still

tender, still visibly swolen. Most of you know my diet. Veggei. No dairy, no

eggs, no meats (aaargh!!!). No cooked foods. It has been suggested to have

the thing taken out, but I figure our Creator put it there for a reason, and

who am I to second guess Him???

Anyway, I am looking forward to a lively informative discussion!

Peace, love, laughter

--

I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users.

It has removed 45 spam emails to date.

Paying users do not have this message in their emails.

Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!

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,

Sorry to hear this....be careful with inflammation...treat it

immediately.

Castor oil packs for the pain. For inflammation, no solid foods, for 3

days. Juice apple, mostly, also beet and pear. Spring/distiled water.

After 3 days, homemade applesauce, shredded raw beets with 2 tbsps

olive oil & fresh lemon juice. I think most of the discussion

happened, . I bet it's still soon enough to do an archive search.

Later...liver and colon detox.

Can you afford supplements right now? MSM Glutathione for the liver.

If not start drinking some warm water in the am with 1/2 juiced lemon.

Don't get it on your teeth.

Kit

> I was diagnosed with gallstones last week after having a gallbladder

> attack that landed me in the ER. I decided to seek the opinion of an

> integrative doctor who would consider other options besides/in addition

> to surgery. I'm not convinced that I want to live without a gallbladder

> at this time. She prescribed a Chinese Traditional Formula by Health

> Concerns called GB-6. I am also changing my diet to one that is

> primarily whole grains, fruit, vegetables, soy, with no dairy, sugar,

> cholesterol, etc. I wanted to know if anyone has had a positive

> experience dissolving gallstones through herbal and dietary

> interventions. I have heard about the " flush " but am not including this

> practice at this time since it was not recommended by my doctor.

>

>

>

>

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I use it in tea/decoction, and in capsules. Seldom by itself, though. Usually with other ingredients depending on what I am taking it for. Though in my "wilding" days, I used to smoke it.

Peace, love, laughter

trobertabq <TrobertABQ@...> wrote:

How do you consume catnip? __________________________________________________

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I notice a lot of advice against oils for gallbaldder problems, which I understand. But the flush is with olive oil. Is olive oil okay during gallbladder attacks? Or is it only for the flush?

Loving this thread! Learning lots. Thanks all of you, and my heart goes out to all of you fellow sufferers!!!

Peace, love, laughter

astrosue@... wrote:

Yup, that's what you do! Many rawfood enthusiasts just pick up a headof lettuces or whatever veggie and eat it! You could concoct a dip ifyou need to.No heated oils w/ gall bladder problems.Sue__________________________________________________

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