Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Since my son is incapacitated by PTSD through no fault of his own, I am offended by that that psychological explanation for physiological disorders. I am appalled at the blame-the-victim mentality as though my son chose to be disabled. > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy into > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, > or > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that > messed > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official disability > dx) > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone > is > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic > influence > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That proved > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically > based. > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to > having > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell > would > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with predisposition. > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Every war had a different name for it. " Battle fatigue " is another name. But one doesn't have to be involved in a war to have it. Thus the change of name to be inclusive of all causes. > > Well I guess that is what you get when you call it PTSD and not POST > TRAUMATIC STRESS DISSORDER! Losses it's meaning somehow.. Didn't > Carlin do a bit about it all starting out as Shell-Shock? > > > > Stella > > > > Re: PTSD > > > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy into > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, or > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that messed > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official disability > dx) > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone > is > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic > influence > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That proved > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically > based. > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to having > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell > would > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with predisposition. > > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Hi ya'll. I have done extensive research into the genetic basis of mental illness. My observations are that a research paper will come out and claim " the gene for depression or schizophrenia APPEARS to have been found " In this research there will be a lot of excitement but also cautionary wording like the above " appears " and " may " and other wording that waters down the claims. Then the press repeats this without these terms. Headlines read: " GENE FOUND FOR DEPRESSION " I can tell you that there has been no real genes found conclusively to control depression or any other mental state. There can be an organic problem with the body and that usually manifests as retardation. Even Autism is an unknown no matter what doctors claim. There appears to be a link but it has never truly been proven, just promoted. Considering all the outright lies around this subject it's actually amazing to fully read the research and find that they will word things in a way to deceive or confuse but if you get out the dictionary and go through the studies you can see that every study is a study of hope and excitement, not proof. A study of a belief system based on science but not true scienctific, repeatable truth. Later, late 90's, the doctors started to admit that a single gene for mental stuff was not going to be found, after all earlier claims had been rebuked, and went into the " multiple gene " theory and even finally had to admit there was a conection with the environment that the person was in but still the school of thought on mental illness has hung onto the genetic link and promoted it, even though there truly is no conclusive evidence that I have seen. All I've seen is a pattern of washing the public with the " gene theory as solution propaganda " . I am guessing this is because gene theory can lead to the manufacture of drugs, and that is a BIG, lucrative business for all concerned except the public. I say all mental travail is caused by experiences and poisons in the body. So to me any drug to handle mental travail is at best a symptom masking agent that too many times can cause further travail. Go to the library and suffer through the research in a historical manner and you will never see the old claims ever resurface but you will see a continuing wash of " Gene claims " hitting the public for schizophrenia and depression and occasionally for ADHD. Lot's of Bi-Polar claims made. The oldest Bi-Polar claim of course uses the manic-depressive title. It's all bull and looks to have influenced everyones thinking, I hear " genetic disposition " all the time. It's lies. You can have a gene that makes blue or brown eye's, kinky hair or blonde. But when you cross that line into the " mental " the science simply is not there but is being promoted like it is. Tourettes Syndrome is genetic. Retardation can be genetic, but doesn't have to be. Depression and other DSM labels have never been proven to be genetic no matter what NAMI and psychs say. Jim Glitter...i totally agree. Predisposition IMHO is a load of bunk. What is more likely genetic....or passed along...is the bad behavior that contributes to a particular dis-ease. " diabetes runs in the family " .....well....no...probably a bad diet runs in the family. But especially with things like PTSD....its all based on personal experience. > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy > into > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, or > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that messed > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > disability dx) > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone is > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic influence > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That > proved > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically based. > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to having > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell would > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > predisposition. > > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 It's kind of hard to discredit genetic predisposition to anything considering so little is known about the human genome. They've mapped it but they have no idea yet what controls what and how the various genes interact. Genetic research is in it's infancy, just like brain research. I don't believe that the people doing most of the genome and brain research are flunkies of the drug companies but actual scientist doing real honest to goodness real life scientific research. What happens with their research when the drug company flunkies get their hands on it is something else again. But to deny that so-called " disorders " can have genetic basis is tantamount to denying the existence of genes. > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy > > into > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, > or > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that > messed > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > disability > dx) > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone > is > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic > influence > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That > > proved > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically > based. > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to > having > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell > would > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > predisposition. > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 It's kind of hard to discredit genetic predisposition to anything considering so little is known about the human genome. They've mapped it but they have no idea yet what controls what and how the various genes interact. Genetic research is in it's infancy, just like brain research. I don't believe that the people doing most of the genome and brain research are flunkies of the drug companies but actual scientist doing real honest to goodness real life scientific research. What happens with their research when the drug company flunkies get their hands on it is something else again. But to deny that so-called " disorders " can have genetic basis is tantamount to denying the existence of genes. > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy > > into > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, > or > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that > messed > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > disability > dx) > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone > is > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic > influence > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That > > proved > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically > based. > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to > having > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell > would > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > predisposition. > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Your post was more to the point. Think of it as being more susceptible to, as opposed to predisposed to. Meaning that put in identical situations, those who are more susceptible are more likely to develop PTSD, or depression, or whatever. Assuming that if it is inherited susceptibility, that it must be tied to one gene is also misleading. We have three children, all are ADD,(and all are successful with college degrees) all have observable difference in their brain anatomy in the right hemisphere. Traits associated with ADD go back several generations on both sides of the family, there are also second cousins with it and learning disabilities. Hard to deny in this family that it is inherited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Your post was more to the point. Think of it as being more susceptible to, as opposed to predisposed to. Meaning that put in identical situations, those who are more susceptible are more likely to develop PTSD, or depression, or whatever. Assuming that if it is inherited susceptibility, that it must be tied to one gene is also misleading. We have three children, all are ADD,(and all are successful with college degrees) all have observable difference in their brain anatomy in the right hemisphere. Traits associated with ADD go back several generations on both sides of the family, there are also second cousins with it and learning disabilities. Hard to deny in this family that it is inherited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 My two cents here is that PTSD results from TRAUMA; ie. inescapable pain, torture, where one's life was threatened. There is also usually an element of the horific involved. There is usually an element of disociation involved as the mind splits. I don't believe it is genetically transfered but I do believe that parents with unresolved trauma can transmit their fears to their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 My two cents here is that PTSD results from TRAUMA; ie. inescapable pain, torture, where one's life was threatened. There is also usually an element of the horific involved. There is usually an element of disociation involved as the mind splits. I don't believe it is genetically transfered but I do believe that parents with unresolved trauma can transmit their fears to their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli geneticist disagree. I rejected the mental-illness-is-learned- behavior argument in Psych 101, way back in the '70's when it was just getting popular. > > > > My two cents here is that PTSD results from TRAUMA; ie. inescapable > pain, torture, where one's life was threatened. There is also > usually an element of the horific involved. There is usually an > element of disociation involved as the mind splits. > > I don't believe it is genetically transfered but I do believe that > parents with unresolved trauma can transmit their fears to their > children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 If you read the link I posted, you will see that some Israeli geneticist disagree. I rejected the mental-illness-is-learned- behavior argument in Psych 101, way back in the '70's when it was just getting popular. > > > > My two cents here is that PTSD results from TRAUMA; ie. inescapable > pain, torture, where one's life was threatened. There is also > usually an element of the horific involved. There is usually an > element of disociation involved as the mind splits. > > I don't believe it is genetically transfered but I do believe that > parents with unresolved trauma can transmit their fears to their > children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Thank you, Jim. That is an excellent summary of the issue. Re: Re: PTSD Hi ya'll. I have done extensive research into the genetic basis of mental illness. My observations are that a research paper will come out and claim " the gene for depression or schizophrenia APPEARS to have been found " In this research there will be a lot of excitement but also cautionary wording like the above " appears " and " may " and other wording that waters down the claims. Then the press repeats this without these terms. Headlines read: " GENE FOUND FOR DEPRESSION " I can tell you that there has been no real genes found conclusively to control depression or any other mental state. There can be an organic problem with the body and that usually manifests as retardation. Even Autism is an unknown no matter what doctors claim. There appears to be a link but it has never truly been proven, just promoted. Considering all the outright lies around this subject it's actually amazing to fully read the research and find that they will word things in a way to deceive or confuse but if you get out the dictionary and go through the studies you can see that every study is a study of hope and excitement, not proof. A study of a belief system based on science but not true scienctific, repeatable truth. Later, late 90's, the doctors started to admit that a single gene for mental stuff was not going to be found, after all earlier claims had been rebuked, and went into the " multiple gene " theory and even finally had to admit there was a conection with the environment that the person was in but still the school of thought on mental illness has hung onto the genetic link and promoted it, even though there truly is no conclusive evidence that I have seen. All I've seen is a pattern of washing the public with the " gene theory as solution propaganda " . I am guessing this is because gene theory can lead to the manufacture of drugs, and that is a BIG, lucrative business for all concerned except the public. I say all mental travail is caused by experiences and poisons in the body. So to me any drug to handle mental travail is at best a symptom masking agent that too many times can cause further travail. Go to the library and suffer through the research in a historical manner and you will never see the old claims ever resurface but you will see a continuing wash of " Gene claims " hitting the public for schizophrenia and depression and occasionally for ADHD. Lot's of Bi-Polar claims made. The oldest Bi-Polar claim of course uses the manic-depressive title. It's all bull and looks to have influenced everyones thinking, I hear " genetic disposition " all the time. It's lies. You can have a gene that makes blue or brown eye's, kinky hair or blonde. But when you cross that line into the " mental " the science simply is not there but is being promoted like it is. Tourettes Syndrome is genetic. Retardation can be genetic, but doesn't have to be. Depression and other DSM labels have never been proven to be genetic no matter what NAMI and psychs say. Jim Glitter...i totally agree. Predisposition IMHO is a load of bunk. What is more likely genetic....or passed along...is the bad behavior that contributes to a particular dis-ease. " diabetes runs in the family " .....well....no...probably a bad diet runs in the family. But especially with things like PTSD....its all based on personal experience. > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy > into > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, or > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that messed > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > disability dx) > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone is > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic influence > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That > proved > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically based. > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to having > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell would > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > predisposition. > > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Thank you, Jim. That is an excellent summary of the issue. Re: Re: PTSD Hi ya'll. I have done extensive research into the genetic basis of mental illness. My observations are that a research paper will come out and claim " the gene for depression or schizophrenia APPEARS to have been found " In this research there will be a lot of excitement but also cautionary wording like the above " appears " and " may " and other wording that waters down the claims. Then the press repeats this without these terms. Headlines read: " GENE FOUND FOR DEPRESSION " I can tell you that there has been no real genes found conclusively to control depression or any other mental state. There can be an organic problem with the body and that usually manifests as retardation. Even Autism is an unknown no matter what doctors claim. There appears to be a link but it has never truly been proven, just promoted. Considering all the outright lies around this subject it's actually amazing to fully read the research and find that they will word things in a way to deceive or confuse but if you get out the dictionary and go through the studies you can see that every study is a study of hope and excitement, not proof. A study of a belief system based on science but not true scienctific, repeatable truth. Later, late 90's, the doctors started to admit that a single gene for mental stuff was not going to be found, after all earlier claims had been rebuked, and went into the " multiple gene " theory and even finally had to admit there was a conection with the environment that the person was in but still the school of thought on mental illness has hung onto the genetic link and promoted it, even though there truly is no conclusive evidence that I have seen. All I've seen is a pattern of washing the public with the " gene theory as solution propaganda " . I am guessing this is because gene theory can lead to the manufacture of drugs, and that is a BIG, lucrative business for all concerned except the public. I say all mental travail is caused by experiences and poisons in the body. So to me any drug to handle mental travail is at best a symptom masking agent that too many times can cause further travail. Go to the library and suffer through the research in a historical manner and you will never see the old claims ever resurface but you will see a continuing wash of " Gene claims " hitting the public for schizophrenia and depression and occasionally for ADHD. Lot's of Bi-Polar claims made. The oldest Bi-Polar claim of course uses the manic-depressive title. It's all bull and looks to have influenced everyones thinking, I hear " genetic disposition " all the time. It's lies. You can have a gene that makes blue or brown eye's, kinky hair or blonde. But when you cross that line into the " mental " the science simply is not there but is being promoted like it is. Tourettes Syndrome is genetic. Retardation can be genetic, but doesn't have to be. Depression and other DSM labels have never been proven to be genetic no matter what NAMI and psychs say. Jim Glitter...i totally agree. Predisposition IMHO is a load of bunk. What is more likely genetic....or passed along...is the bad behavior that contributes to a particular dis-ease. " diabetes runs in the family " .....well....no...probably a bad diet runs in the family. But especially with things like PTSD....its all based on personal experience. > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > SSRI medications writes: > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy > into > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, or > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that messed > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > disability dx) > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone is > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic influence > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That > proved > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically based. > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to having > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell would > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > predisposition. > > > " Blind Reason " > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Sara, It's kind of hard to credit genetic predisposition to anything considering so little is known about the human genome. That's my point. Good solid science is the question. I have read about 35 papers (mostly the abstracts) and every gene they have found for mental illness has not gone anywhere. Yet the public has been led down the merry road of " everything is because of your genes " by the press. It's complete Grade A Horse Manure and takes any responsibility of the person being told this and throws it out the window. " I'm genetically dispositioned, I can't help it " is very sad to me. I believe everyone of us can do anything we put our minds to. Small research firms do research on drugs and genetics etc etc and investors invest in these, they usually spread their investments around about 20 of these little start-ups because that's about how many it takes to make a breakthrough that will make a blockbuster drug. The little research company that makes the breakthrough promotes it like mad in hopes a bigger company like Eli Lilly will buy it outright or lease the finding/drug and pay royalties for the life of the drug/finding (which is exactly where all the genetic research is aimed at, drugs) This is the gamble a investor takes that a research firm will find a blockbuster drug cause that's where the money is. the other start-ups that fail probably flounder and regroup into new start-ups, I'm not sure. The little firms get a chance to do pure research without someone breathing down their neck and the big pharma companies don't have to spend much money on research, only examine and confirm research breakthrough claims. the promotion of the " Schizo gene " and the " depression gene " are for investors. If you actually read the abstracts the excited hopefulness is really what these are about. I'm sure there are sincere researchers out there and genes definitely exist but there is zero proof that mental disorders are caused by genes dispite the promo people are fed. So happiness, sadness, love, hate, affinity for a poem or a sunset are all based on your genes? Where do you fit in, are you just a bunch of genes that determine your fate? Sorry, I don't buy it. I may be proved wrong in the long run but so far, they have only proved that genetic psychiatry is determined to find the genes, not that they have found anything. So why are they spouting that they hav found them? they are lying, they are promoting a belief system. Are we so cutting edge that we could be wrong? Blood-letting was the fad for years. Sorry but my genes don't run me around and you can believe what you want but unless you go read what I have read, you could be basing things on belief that has been promoted like all the psychiatry lies. Right up there with " chemical imbalance " . Best to you, Jim It's kind of hard to discredit genetic predisposition to anything considering so little is known about the human genome. They've mapped it but they have no idea yet what controls what and how the various genes interact. Genetic research is in it's infancy, just like brain research. I don't believe that the people doing most of the genome and brain research are flunkies of the drug companies but actual scientist doing real honest to goodness real life scientific research. What happens with their research when the drug company flunkies get their hands on it is something else again. But to deny that so-called " disorders " can have genetic basis is tantamount to denying the existence of genes. > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy > > into > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, > or > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that > messed > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > disability > dx) > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone > is > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic > influence > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That > > proved > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically > based. > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to > having > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell > would > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > predisposition. > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Sara, It's kind of hard to credit genetic predisposition to anything considering so little is known about the human genome. That's my point. Good solid science is the question. I have read about 35 papers (mostly the abstracts) and every gene they have found for mental illness has not gone anywhere. Yet the public has been led down the merry road of " everything is because of your genes " by the press. It's complete Grade A Horse Manure and takes any responsibility of the person being told this and throws it out the window. " I'm genetically dispositioned, I can't help it " is very sad to me. I believe everyone of us can do anything we put our minds to. Small research firms do research on drugs and genetics etc etc and investors invest in these, they usually spread their investments around about 20 of these little start-ups because that's about how many it takes to make a breakthrough that will make a blockbuster drug. The little research company that makes the breakthrough promotes it like mad in hopes a bigger company like Eli Lilly will buy it outright or lease the finding/drug and pay royalties for the life of the drug/finding (which is exactly where all the genetic research is aimed at, drugs) This is the gamble a investor takes that a research firm will find a blockbuster drug cause that's where the money is. the other start-ups that fail probably flounder and regroup into new start-ups, I'm not sure. The little firms get a chance to do pure research without someone breathing down their neck and the big pharma companies don't have to spend much money on research, only examine and confirm research breakthrough claims. the promotion of the " Schizo gene " and the " depression gene " are for investors. If you actually read the abstracts the excited hopefulness is really what these are about. I'm sure there are sincere researchers out there and genes definitely exist but there is zero proof that mental disorders are caused by genes dispite the promo people are fed. So happiness, sadness, love, hate, affinity for a poem or a sunset are all based on your genes? Where do you fit in, are you just a bunch of genes that determine your fate? Sorry, I don't buy it. I may be proved wrong in the long run but so far, they have only proved that genetic psychiatry is determined to find the genes, not that they have found anything. So why are they spouting that they hav found them? they are lying, they are promoting a belief system. Are we so cutting edge that we could be wrong? Blood-letting was the fad for years. Sorry but my genes don't run me around and you can believe what you want but unless you go read what I have read, you could be basing things on belief that has been promoted like all the psychiatry lies. Right up there with " chemical imbalance " . Best to you, Jim It's kind of hard to discredit genetic predisposition to anything considering so little is known about the human genome. They've mapped it but they have no idea yet what controls what and how the various genes interact. Genetic research is in it's infancy, just like brain research. I don't believe that the people doing most of the genome and brain research are flunkies of the drug companies but actual scientist doing real honest to goodness real life scientific research. What happens with their research when the drug company flunkies get their hands on it is something else again. But to deny that so-called " disorders " can have genetic basis is tantamount to denying the existence of genes. > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to PTSD. > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't buy > > into > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the Korean War, > or > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug that > messed > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > disability > dx) > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if someone > is > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, genetic > influence > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. That > > proved > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are genetically > based. > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction to > having > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and utter hell > would > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > predisposition. > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Good point, we all know that parents behaviors can go onto the children, but again there is no scientific proof of this, it is observable but not along a genetic maping line. Jim My two cents here is that PTSD results from TRAUMA; ie. inescapable pain, torture, where one's life was threatened. There is also usually an element of the horific involved. There is usually an element of disociation involved as the mind splits. I don't believe it is genetically transfered but I do believe that parents with unresolved trauma can transmit their fears to their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Good point, we all know that parents behaviors can go onto the children, but again there is no scientific proof of this, it is observable but not along a genetic maping line. Jim My two cents here is that PTSD results from TRAUMA; ie. inescapable pain, torture, where one's life was threatened. There is also usually an element of the horific involved. There is usually an element of disociation involved as the mind splits. I don't believe it is genetically transfered but I do believe that parents with unresolved trauma can transmit their fears to their children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 It's kind of hard to discredit genetic prediposition considering there are things we do know are gene controlled. And I see nothing else to explain family tendencies towards certain temperament and personality. " She's just like her mother " and " The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree " type sayings have been around far longer than modern psychology. If there can be a genetic predisposition to body type, why not personality -- which use to cover much of what the psychiatrists have convinced us are " disorders " . > > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to > PTSD. > > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't > buy > > > into > > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the > Korean War, > > or > > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug > that > > messed > > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > > disability > > dx) > > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if > someone > > is > > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, > genetic > > influence > > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. > That > > > proved > > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are > genetically > > based. > > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction > to > > having > > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and > utter hell > > would > > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > > predisposition. > > > > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 It's kind of hard to discredit genetic prediposition considering there are things we do know are gene controlled. And I see nothing else to explain family tendencies towards certain temperament and personality. " She's just like her mother " and " The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree " type sayings have been around far longer than modern psychology. If there can be a genetic predisposition to body type, why not personality -- which use to cover much of what the psychiatrists have convinced us are " disorders " . > > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to > PTSD. > > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't > buy > > > into > > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the > Korean War, > > or > > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug > that > > messed > > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > > disability > > dx) > > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if > someone > > is > > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, > genetic > > influence > > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. > That > > > proved > > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are > genetically > > based. > > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction > to > > having > > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and > utter hell > > would > > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > > predisposition. > > > > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, SSRI medications writes: > I am appalled at the blame-the-victim mentality as though > my son chose to be disabled I didn't choose to be disabled by PTSD either. NOBODY WOULD CHOOSE THIS!!!! " Blind Reason " a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's Unsafe At Any Dose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 In a message dated 1/29/05 6:26:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, SSRI medications writes: > I am appalled at the blame-the-victim mentality as though > my son chose to be disabled I didn't choose to be disabled by PTSD either. NOBODY WOULD CHOOSE THIS!!!! " Blind Reason " a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's Unsafe At Any Dose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 True, it appears to make sense, and it may. But it has not been proven yet while the concept most 21st century people has is that it is a fact. I could very well be wrong in the long run, but all the studies I have seen tell me that the field of genetic psychiatry is grasping at straws so far, so for them to announce learnedly that it's all genetic is lying. And most of the psychiatirc press you can find some reference to genes, it kills any pretense of hard science, it's a theory at best and certainly does not account for what makes us human. Psychology has done that for years, it's almost fadish the trends in pyschology. I personally would examine the social patterns, diet and environment before I would pounce on the gene thing. If you look at it, it really is a seductive idea, but where does it take us? Nazi Germany and Fascism were big proponents of this genetic line idea, to the extreme, I say judge people on their merits and keep the theories where they belong, don't parade them around as fact. If people never took responsibility for their actions then became depressed because they lost their fortunes or whatever, is that genetic, or something that is their responsibility to figure out what happended and try again. Just an example. Most people getting this label have just lost a spouse or family member, that's normal, it's normal to be sad. It's weird to be gorked out on meds and not really feeling the real pain to me, how do you grow, how do you learn? That's my pain and I want it, I want to confront it and overcome it. I don't judge anyone their solutions. I can never know what pain people experience so how can I judge them? To me hanging around your family can lead you to act like them way more than the genetic code they gave you. There is something to it, but it isn't the whole picture, otherwise everyone with mental illness is doomed to take the drugs that are promoted and so are their children. I don't think so. I know that completely bonkers people, left alone, snap out of it and go on like nothing happened. Takes years, but they were not drugged or restrained or put in seclusion. People labeled schizophrenic and treated in western psych hospitals never really get back to themselves, very very few. I can't say genetic predisposition is a fact, it's just not a fact yet and considering that the people promoting that idea are fudging about so much else why believe them? It's kind of hard to discredit genetic prediposition considering there are things we do know are gene controlled. And I see nothing else to explain family tendencies towards certain temperament and personality. " She's just like her mother " and " The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree " type sayings have been around far longer than modern psychology. If there can be a genetic predisposition to body type, why not personality -- which use to cover much of what the psychiatrists have convinced us are " disorders " . > > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to > PTSD. > > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't > buy > > > into > > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the > Korean War, > > or > > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug > that > > messed > > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > > disability > > dx) > > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if > someone > > is > > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, > genetic > > influence > > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. > That > > > proved > > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are > genetically > > based. > > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction > to > > having > > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and > utter hell > > would > > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > > predisposition. > > > > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 True, it appears to make sense, and it may. But it has not been proven yet while the concept most 21st century people has is that it is a fact. I could very well be wrong in the long run, but all the studies I have seen tell me that the field of genetic psychiatry is grasping at straws so far, so for them to announce learnedly that it's all genetic is lying. And most of the psychiatirc press you can find some reference to genes, it kills any pretense of hard science, it's a theory at best and certainly does not account for what makes us human. Psychology has done that for years, it's almost fadish the trends in pyschology. I personally would examine the social patterns, diet and environment before I would pounce on the gene thing. If you look at it, it really is a seductive idea, but where does it take us? Nazi Germany and Fascism were big proponents of this genetic line idea, to the extreme, I say judge people on their merits and keep the theories where they belong, don't parade them around as fact. If people never took responsibility for their actions then became depressed because they lost their fortunes or whatever, is that genetic, or something that is their responsibility to figure out what happended and try again. Just an example. Most people getting this label have just lost a spouse or family member, that's normal, it's normal to be sad. It's weird to be gorked out on meds and not really feeling the real pain to me, how do you grow, how do you learn? That's my pain and I want it, I want to confront it and overcome it. I don't judge anyone their solutions. I can never know what pain people experience so how can I judge them? To me hanging around your family can lead you to act like them way more than the genetic code they gave you. There is something to it, but it isn't the whole picture, otherwise everyone with mental illness is doomed to take the drugs that are promoted and so are their children. I don't think so. I know that completely bonkers people, left alone, snap out of it and go on like nothing happened. Takes years, but they were not drugged or restrained or put in seclusion. People labeled schizophrenic and treated in western psych hospitals never really get back to themselves, very very few. I can't say genetic predisposition is a fact, it's just not a fact yet and considering that the people promoting that idea are fudging about so much else why believe them? It's kind of hard to discredit genetic prediposition considering there are things we do know are gene controlled. And I see nothing else to explain family tendencies towards certain temperament and personality. " She's just like her mother " and " The acorn doesn't fall far from the tree " type sayings have been around far longer than modern psychology. If there can be a genetic predisposition to body type, why not personality -- which use to cover much of what the psychiatrists have convinced us are " disorders " . > > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to > PTSD. > > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702.php > > > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't > buy > > > into > > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the > Korean War, > > or > > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug > that > > messed > > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > > disability > > dx) > > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if > someone > > is > > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, > genetic > > influence > > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. > That > > > proved > > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are > genetically > > based. > > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction > to > > having > > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and > utter hell > > would > > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > > predisposition. > > > > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Studies on identical twins separated at birth who behave in quite similar styles and have quite similar tastes despite being raised by very different families were the kicker for me to believe that genetic predisposition greatly effects personality. If you read the story about the genetic link to PTSD, you will see that it is considered to be dormant unless the body is stressed so severely that it is activated. Much like they believe genetic predisposition to some forms of cancer are activated by something in the environment. The idea of traits running in families or ethnic groups of people preceeds the Nazis by centuries. In fact, the Nazis were trying to " perfect " what was widely known and believed to be true by just about everyone, until Modern Psychology took over the world after WWII. > > > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to > > PTSD. > > > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702. php > > > > > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't > > buy > > > > into > > > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the > > Korean War, > > > or > > > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug > > that > > > messed > > > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > > > disability > > > dx) > > > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if > > someone > > > is > > > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, > > genetic > > > influence > > > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. > > That > > > > proved > > > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are > > genetically > > > based. > > > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction > > to > > > having > > > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and > > utter hell > > > would > > > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > > > predisposition. > > > > > > > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2005 Report Share Posted January 29, 2005 Studies on identical twins separated at birth who behave in quite similar styles and have quite similar tastes despite being raised by very different families were the kicker for me to believe that genetic predisposition greatly effects personality. If you read the story about the genetic link to PTSD, you will see that it is considered to be dormant unless the body is stressed so severely that it is activated. Much like they believe genetic predisposition to some forms of cancer are activated by something in the environment. The idea of traits running in families or ethnic groups of people preceeds the Nazis by centuries. In fact, the Nazis were trying to " perfect " what was widely known and believed to be true by just about everyone, until Modern Psychology took over the world after WWII. > > > > In a message dated 1/28/05 8:44:19 PM Mountain Standard Time, > > > > SSRI medications writes: > > > > > > > > > > > > > His grandfather has/had (we don't know him) severe PTSD from the > > > > > Korean War. We believe our son has a genetic predisposition to > > PTSD. > > > > > http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2002-09/mp-iot091702. php > > > > > > > > > HAHAHA! It never occurred to me that it was a typo! Please don't > > buy > > > > into > > > > the genetic predisposition for PTSD. If YOU went through the > > Korean War, > > > or > > > > the Vietnam War, or WWII, or taken Paxil, or Prozac, or any drug > > that > > > messed > > > > with your mind, you'd have PTSD, too!! I have PTSD (my official > > > > disability > > > dx) > > > > from taking Paxil. There is NOBODY in my family with PTSD, but if > > someone > > > is > > > > traumatized severely enough, they will develop this disorder, > > genetic > > > influence > > > > or not. A few years ago all diseases were caused by bacteria. > > That > > > > proved > > > > to be wrong. Now they want to prove that all diseases are > > genetically > > > based. > > > > They will be proven wrong on that too. The only NORMAL reaction > > to > > > having > > > > your mind scrambled and being tossed into an abyss of pure and > > utter hell > > > would > > > > be to develop PTSD. Ir really has nothing at all to do with > > > > predisposition. > > > > > > > > > > > > " Blind Reason " > > > > a novel of pharmaceutical intrigue > > > > Think your antidepressant is safe? Think again. It's > > > > Unsafe At Any Dose > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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