Guest guest Posted October 20, 2005 Report Share Posted October 20, 2005 Here's a site that is pretty good for you http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/ferfun.html <deuteronomy2929@...> wrote: Okay, I have questions regarding fermenting. What is it, what is it done to and with, what are the benefits, what are the drawbacks. The basics first, please. Don't overload my wee little brain. Anyone and everyone feel free to jump in here. Thanks!!! Suzi What is a weed? A plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered. health/ www.onegrp.com/?mamanott organic cosmetics http://suziesgoats.wholefoodfarmacy.com/ Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2005 Report Share Posted October 21, 2005 Fermentation can also be thought of as a form of food preservation. Most of your herbal teas if made up and left out on the shelf will quickly go bad on you and be ineffective not to mention filled with mold and corruption. However, if you add a source of sugar and some yeast you'll get beer which will keep for a long time. Thus, some herbal properties can be preserved and be used at a much later time. Vinegars do the same thing without the buzz. Speaking of vinegars, my apple cider vinegar I've been making seems to have stopped working half way between hard cider and vinegar. Not sure why that is, it's a delightful health tonic. Yep, jush medisinal, hiccup. Someone else will have to comment on the fermented food end. Fermenting some stuff enables you to keep it longer and the Weston Price Foundation folks claim it has all kinds of beneficial properties. I don't know much about that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2010 Report Share Posted August 29, 2010 , For some strange reason she says to use whey in those recipes. Most people are baffled by this as it results in soggy vegetables. It is " safer " to ferment with whey, so maybe she put that there for legal reasons. It's very easy to push toward ferment rather than rot by using any of the other three possibilities, salt, acidity (vinegar) or some brine from a previous batch. It's so easy to get a good ferment you would almost have to work at it to get a bad batch, unless of course if you use whey! I do use whey for fermenting raw meat for my dogs with great results. /Jon > > Hi All i am sure you all are familiar with NT cookbook. I have noticed when making the recipes that my veggies get soggy and don't have a crunchy they of texture. Should they be soggy, if so how soggy? I threw out a couple gallons of Cortido because it was way to soggy. I could not eat it. Went to the compost and chickens . Is there recipes to use that keep a more raw crunchy texture? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Well SHOOT - I just picked a shopping bag full. I hope heather sees that is replies today - if not, my choices are: Freeze them - or dry them and then use them in a small bag (a tea sachet or cotton or nylon) Ev On 8/30/2010 12:19 PM, Kathleen wrote: > Hi Ev, > > I will soon be harvesting some nice big grape leaves myself. posted on > this long ago. I would not dehydrate them - it seems to me that they would > crack. Wait for or others to post what to do with fresh leaves; I'm > waiting as well. I remember that they can be preserved. > > Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 My guess is to blanch them then preserve them in diluted citrus or brine....Kathleen " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again. " R. Cook ________________________________ From: Lee Barney <EvBarney@...> nutrition Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 11:05:31 AM Subject: Re: Re: Fermenting Well SHOOT - I just picked a shopping bag full. I hope heather sees that is replies today - if not, my choices are: Freeze them - or dry them and then use them in a small bag (a tea sachet or cotton or nylon) Ev On 8/30/2010 12:19 PM, Kathleen wrote: > Hi Ev, > > I will soon be harvesting some nice big grape leaves myself. posted on > this long ago. I would not dehydrate them - it seems to me that they would > crack. Wait for or others to post what to do with fresh leaves; I'm > waiting as well. I remember that they can be preserved. > > Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 30, 2010 Report Share Posted August 30, 2010 Grape leaves are great! This is a good time to get them, when they are at their biggest. They are really easy to keep. Probably the easiest is to just ferment them ... add a nice brine and let them ferment. Or you can layer them with salt. Or cover them with vinegar. Or just stick them in a bag, in the freezer. As for mushy vegies: whey is one cause. Another is that the cells absorb water and burst. The best solution for the latter is to dehydrate the vegies first ... i.e. " wilt " them. Which is totally non-intuitive. Commercially they sell lime to do this with cukes for crunchy pickles, but you can just rub the cukes with salt and do the same thing. Or set them out in the sun. Ditto for just about any vegetable. After they are a bit wilty, proceed as per usual. As they ferment, water gets drawn back in and they crisp up, without the cells breaking. BTW my Mom uses this method for making a kind of " quick pickle " . She soaks onions and cuke slices in salt water for an hour. Then drains off the water, adds tomatoes, and sprinkles on a little rice vinegar and adds spices (like dill, basil). They stay surprisingly crispy, even after days in the fridge. Our cukes and tomatoes came out awesomely this year and it is soooo good. I had some today with some added artichoke hearts and pickled eggs, for lunch. On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...> wrote: > Hi Ev, > > I will soon be harvesting some nice big grape leaves myself. > posted on > this long ago. I would not dehydrate them - it seems to me that they would > crack. Wait for or others to post what to do with fresh leaves; > I'm > waiting as well. I remember that they can be preserved. > > Kathleen > > > > > > " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay > attention to > their limitations again. " R. Cook > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Lee Barney <EvBarney@...> > nutrition > Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 5:27:16 AM > Subject: Re: Re: Fermenting > > > > > I have access to plenty of wild grape leaves. Now, that is. I live in > New England - and soon they will have died off for the winter. So, the > question is, how do I preserve these? If we are looking for tannins > (which are also in tea - BTW - I don't know if that would work but a bit > of organic black tea may also work) I'm assuming that just dehydrating > them for winter use should work. Has anyone tried it? Do you have an > opinion? > > Thanks, > > Ev > I > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Hi Ellis, I'm not sure about fermenting, but I have some friends who spent 13 years as medical missionaries in central Africa, and they assure me that they are quite yummy deep fried. and no, I never tried 'em - told 'em I'd take their word for it. ;-) Ev On 8/31/2010 9:10 AM, Ellis Hein wrote: > Hi , > > I am glad to hear of your cucumbers and tomatoes. Here in Wyoming, our garden has gone to grasshoppers. They ate the garlic tops just when it was time to pull it (so we got our garlic) they began eating the onions before it was really time to pull them so I had to harvest them early. Cucumbers, beans, carrots, even dill are eaten to the ground. I have managed to save a patch of beets which I am looking forward to! I will be able to have fermented beets (I hope) but if anyone has recipes for fermented grasshoppers, I will do some and send you a few gallons! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 What is a good brine recipe? Thanks. Looking at my stack of freshly picked grape leaves - some are huge! Do you leave them flat while in brine or roll them up and put them in a jar and cover with brine? Do they set out on the countertop or go into the fridge for brining? Thanks! Kathleen " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again. " R. Cook ________________________________ From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 12, 2010 Report Share Posted September 12, 2010 The recipe I use is: 2T salt, 2T vinegar, 1 qt water: boil and cool. You can just stack the leaves, if there is room. It's probably a good idea to make sure there is brine between them though (avoid air pockets). I usually let things ferment 2 days on the counter (or more if they don't smell " done " ) then put them in the fridge. Our outside fridge is too cold to really give them a good start to fermenting. If you have a " fermenting fridge " that is, say, 60-65 degrees, that would be ideal, and you could start them in that, but few of us have that luxury! On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...> wrote: > What is a good brine recipe? Thanks. Looking at my stack of freshly > picked > grape leaves - some are huge! Do you leave them flat while in brine or > roll > them up and put them in a jar and cover with brine? Do they set out on the > countertop or go into the fridge for brining? Thanks! > > Kathleen > > > > > > " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay > attention to > their limitations again. " R. Cook > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Thank you, ! Hmmm - fermentation fridge - sounds great!...maybe some day... Some of the leaves I got are huge, like 5+ inches across. I should have gotten smaller ones to fit in a flat dish. I think once I know the leave is entirely wet, I will fold it to fit the dish. For those big leaves I'm going to make a bomber size dolmas :-) Thanks again! Kathleen " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again. " R. Cook ________________________________ From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Yeah, some of our grape leaves are huge too! I haven't got into major dolmas making though. In Korean ferments, one coats each leaf with a paste, which is boiled with some starch, so it sticks to the leaf. I've eaten some of those, which were based on sesame leaves, and they were pretty awesome. Possibly grape leaves could be done that way too ... but it probably doesn't need so much work. Grape leaves, like cabbage, really WANT to ferment nicely. On Sun, Sep 12, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...>wrote: > Thank you, ! Hmmm - fermentation fridge - sounds great!...maybe > some > day... Some of the leaves I got are huge, like 5+ inches across. I should > have > gotten smaller ones to fit in a flat dish. I think once I know the leave > is > entirely wet, I will fold it to fit the dish. For those big leaves I'm > going to > make a bomber size dolmas :-) > > Thanks again! > > Kathleen > > > > " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay > attention to > their limitations again. " R. Cook > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 , When on the counter top brining, can I cover loosely with a towel, or do I need to keep a tight lid on it? Kathleen " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again. " R. Cook ________________________________ From: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 If you cover it loosely with a towel, flies are likely to get in (they are sneaky little things!). If you put a tight lid on it, you can get too much pressure and there have been cases of exploding jars. What I do is sort of in-between ... I use a plastic lid and a spacer to hold down the ferment (my " Dunkers " ... but you can use pretty much anything that fits, like a condiment cup). If you have a narrow mouth jar and are fermenting bigger stuff, like cukes, you can pack them in so the shoulder of the jar keeps them dunked (which is why they make the jars that way). They sell the plastic lids for canning jars in the aisle with the canning jars, and they are cheap. Or you can keep old kimchi jars ... I get the half gallon size, which are nice sturdy jars with good lids. And have good kimchi .... I still can't make it like they do! On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 10:12 AM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...>wrote: > > > , > > When on the counter top brining, can I cover loosely with a towel, or do I > need > to keep a tight lid on it? > > Kathleen > > > > > " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 > If you cover it loosely with a towel, > flies are likely to get in How about the kombucha method? Something like a coffee filter held in place with a big rubber band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 3:25 PM, <tjc@...> wrote: > > > If you cover it loosely with a towel, > > flies are likely to get in > > How about the kombucha method? Something like a coffee filter held in > place with a big rubber band. > You can always experiment and see what happens. I did something like that at first, using cloth and a rubber band. I think the plastic lids were just easier. Also if too much air gets in, the top layer of the ferment can dry out some, which makes it easier for mold to grow. Ideally, you want the CO2 from the ferment to just sit on top (it's heavier than air), allowing no oxygen for mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 I have the leaves layered in a square pyrex dish, so I had to cover it with a cloth and rubberband...otherwise I had no where else to put them....Kathleen " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay attention to their limitations again. " R. Cook ________________________________ From: " tjc@... " <tjc@...> nutrition Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 3:25:59 PM Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fermenting > If you cover it loosely with a towel, > flies are likely to get in How about the kombucha method? Something like a coffee filter held in place with a big rubber band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 13, 2010 Report Share Posted September 13, 2010 Ah. So the issue is the size of the leaves? That makes sense. Grape leaves can be big! I'd say add some weight to them to make sure they are submerged (a pyrex dish, for example) and just make sure they don't dry out. The Koreans would coat each leaf with a paste and put them in a jar ... which also works, but it is more work. It's ok to roll them up too, or bend them. Grape leaves are pretty tough. On Mon, Sep 13, 2010 at 8:17 PM, Kathleen <kathleencsa@...> wrote: > I have the leaves layered in a square pyrex dish, so I had to cover it with > a > cloth and rubberband...otherwise I had no where else to put > them....Kathleen > > > > > > " Do just once what others say you can't do, and you will never pay > attention to > their limitations again. " R. Cook > > > > > ________________________________ > From: " tjc@... " <tjc@...> > nutrition > Sent: Mon, September 13, 2010 3:25:59 PM > Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fermenting > > > > > If you cover it loosely with a towel, > > flies are likely to get in > > How about the kombucha method? Something like a coffee filter held in > place with a big rubber band. > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 Are people collecting the grape leaves now? I thought you were only suppose to get them in the spring? Samala, -------Original Message------- I have the leaves layered in a square pyrex dish, so I had to cover it with a cloth and rubberband...otherwise I had no where else to put them....Kathleen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 14, 2010 Report Share Posted September 14, 2010 They are way more tender in the spring, so it would be a good idea to get them then. Once they ferment though, they do get more tender. If you are using them to add tannin to a ferment (and a " lid " ) then they probably have more tannins now. You can just pop them into the freezer to use for fermenting later. On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 6:01 AM, <gaiacita@...> wrote: > Are people collecting the grape leaves now? I thought you were only > suppose > to get them in the spring? > > Samala, > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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