Re: severe sleep issue

[Guest guest]

,What characterizes the changes from Stage1 sleep (alpha down/theta up--as in alpha theta) and stage 2 sleep is bursts of 12-15 Hz " sleep spindles " in the sensory-motor cortex and K-complexes.  Go back to basic SMR training at Cz and/or at C3/C4 and/or at C4/A2.  Jeff Reich described in a post here some time back an interesting approach he uses, beginning with a couple sessions of just rewarding SMR levels and trying to guide the client to higher and higher levels without worrying about inhibits.  Then when he and the client know the SMR target, they add inhibits.

Good SMR training is done with eyes open, but it often results in the client getting very heavy-eyed and drowsy, sometimes actually apparently falling asleep in the chair.  When this happens, which it can especially with sleep-deprived clients, just let the training continue.  When the feedback stops, the client will come up by herself.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM, mtlindsey2002 <mtlindsey@...> wrote:

 

Dear Pete and listmates,

I am working with a 31 year old woman who began to experience severe insomnia about 2 years ago. She takes lunesta PLUS magnesium in order to get to sleep. She describes getting to that twilight state (7hz) and then stays stuck there the entire night unless she takes the lunesta --which alone does not work. She alternates the lunesta and magnesium and melatonin with just magnesium and melatonin. She had hot temporals so I trained that (5x)-- no improvement, I did an alpha theta with her and she said that moved her to the state that she stays in all night -- and she had lots and lots and lots of crossover.

Pete-- what would you recommend. I think I'd like to start her on alpha theta and then change the " cross over " to the hertz that would follow the twilight state. Do you know what this would be? What would you recommend?

Many thanks in advance for your response(s)

Warm regards,

[Guest guest]

,What characterizes the changes from Stage1 sleep (alpha down/theta up--as in alpha theta) and stage 2 sleep is bursts of 12-15 Hz " sleep spindles " in the sensory-motor cortex and K-complexes.  Go back to basic SMR training at Cz and/or at C3/C4 and/or at C4/A2.  Jeff Reich described in a post here some time back an interesting approach he uses, beginning with a couple sessions of just rewarding SMR levels and trying to guide the client to higher and higher levels without worrying about inhibits.  Then when he and the client know the SMR target, they add inhibits.

Good SMR training is done with eyes open, but it often results in the client getting very heavy-eyed and drowsy, sometimes actually apparently falling asleep in the chair.  When this happens, which it can especially with sleep-deprived clients, just let the training continue.  When the feedback stops, the client will come up by herself.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM, mtlindsey2002 <mtlindsey@...> wrote:

 

Dear Pete and listmates,

I am working with a 31 year old woman who began to experience severe insomnia about 2 years ago. She takes lunesta PLUS magnesium in order to get to sleep. She describes getting to that twilight state (7hz) and then stays stuck there the entire night unless she takes the lunesta --which alone does not work. She alternates the lunesta and magnesium and melatonin with just magnesium and melatonin. She had hot temporals so I trained that (5x)-- no improvement, I did an alpha theta with her and she said that moved her to the state that she stays in all night -- and she had lots and lots and lots of crossover.

Pete-- what would you recommend. I think I'd like to start her on alpha theta and then change the " cross over " to the hertz that would follow the twilight state. Do you know what this would be? What would you recommend?

Many thanks in advance for your response(s)

Warm regards,

[Guest guest]

Given ,This response below on another list server by Barry Sterman you might also want to consider training A1/C4

Bruce

> But why would you ever use an ipsilateral reference for a>site>being trained? Placing the reference on the right ear while training>at C4>will significantly attenuate the C4 signal due to signal propagation>to the>reference and resulting common-mode rejection. You always want to>maximize>the relevant signal. I teach people to always use the contralateral>ear as>reference when working on only one hemisphere. That is, if training>is at>C4, place the reference on the left ear and vica-versa. When training>involves multiple sites on both hemispheres a link-ear reference is>necessary.

Re: severe sleep issue

,

What characterizes the changes from Stage1 sleep (alpha down/theta up--as in alpha theta) and stage 2 sleep is bursts of 12-15 Hz "sleep spindles" in the sensory-motor cortex and K-complexes. Go back to basic SMR training at Cz and/or at C3/C4 and/or at C4/A2. Jeff Reich described in a post here some time back an interesting approach he uses, beginning with a couple sessions of just rewarding SMR levels and trying to guide the client to higher and higher levels without worrying about inhibits. Then when he and the client know the SMR target, they add inhibits.

Good SMR training is done with eyes open, but it often results in the client getting very heavy-eyed and drowsy, sometimes actually apparently falling asleep in the chair. When this happens, which it can especially with sleep-deprived clients, just let the training continue. When the feedback stops, the client will come up by herself.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM, mtlindsey2002 <mtlindsey@...> wrote:

Dear Pete and listmates,I am working with a 31 year old woman who began to experience severe insomnia about 2 years ago. She takes lunesta PLUS magnesium in order to get to sleep. She describes getting to that twilight state (7hz) and then stays stuck there the entire night unless she takes the lunesta --which alone does not work. She alternates the lunesta and magnesium and melatonin with just magnesium and melatonin. She had hot temporals so I trained that (5x)-- no improvement, I did an alpha theta with her and she said that moved her to the state that she stays in all night -- and she had lots and lots and lots of crossover. Pete-- what would you recommend. I think I'd like to start her on alpha theta and then change the "cross over" to the hertz that would follow the twilight state. Do you know what this would be? What would you recommend?Many thanks in advance for your response(s)Warm regards,

[Guest guest]

Bruce -- thank you very much for this reply! Barry Sterman " The " Barry Sterman?

if yes -- wow....

I will give c4 smr reward a go -- it was on my list. I suppose it is best to

start with known and used protocols. Your info states " always use the

contralateral ear as reference when working on only one hemisphere " -- this is

the first I have heard this -- do you also use the contralateral ear as a

reference when training one hemisphere? Just wondering.

Thank you again! Enjoy your day...

--

Warm Regards,

Lindsey

[Guest guest]

Bruce -- thank you very much for this reply! Barry Sterman " The " Barry Sterman?

if yes -- wow....

I will give c4 smr reward a go -- it was on my list. I suppose it is best to

start with known and used protocols. Your info states " always use the

contralateral ear as reference when working on only one hemisphere " -- this is

the first I have heard this -- do you also use the contralateral ear as a

reference when training one hemisphere? Just wondering.

Thank you again! Enjoy your day...

--

Warm Regards,

Lindsey

[Guest guest]

Pete-- as always thank you very much. I appreciate both the protocol suggestion

and your informed explanation! I also received other similar e-mails back

channel and I really want to say thank you and how much I appreciate this list

serve! Enjoy your day...

--

Warm Regards,

Lindsey

[Guest guest]

Pete-- as always thank you very much. I appreciate both the protocol suggestion

and your informed explanation! I also received other similar e-mails back

channel and I really want to say thank you and how much I appreciate this list

serve! Enjoy your day...

--

Warm Regards,

Lindsey

[Guest guest]

Dear Pete and Listmates,

I, too, am working with a client, age 54, with severe sleep issues.

She takes Ambien almost nightly, and has for several years. She says

that even with the Ambien she usually does not get to sleep until 5am,

and then sleeps for just a few hours.

Of note in her eyes closed brain maps is global significantly reduced

alpha magnitude, along with significantly reduced posterior theta and

mildly reduced parietal delta. Beta is mildly reduced at Cz and C4,

with normal dominant frequency. Beta is high in magnitude at Pz, with

too fast dominant frequency at all parietal sites, and high beta is

high at Pz and P4, too fast at Pz.

Her eyes open maps are similar in many ways, but also indicate

moderate to significantly increased delta midline and frontal, normal

beta at C sites but too fast at C3. High beta is significantly high at

Pz, and too fast dominant frequency.

Given these beta characteristics, SMR training at central sites is

clearly not contraindicated. My question is this. I am wondering if

the virtual absence of alpha just about anywhere in this brain would

change the recommendation to train SMR at C sites to support sleep. I

have been training alpha up at P4, eyes closed. It is very difficult

for her to get alpha going during training, though she has had some

success and even more so usually gets the high beta to come down

somewhat. I have also supplemented with HRV training, which she really

likes, and 10 hz visual entrainment using a PAL.

I am aware that many in the field, and it seems increasingly so, view

the dropout of alpha as the sign of a possible metabolic issue,

possibly related to adrenals.

Though I am not a TLC user, I have long been a follower and big fan of

this list, and have learned much from Pete and so many others on the

list over the years. For that, and in advance for your thoughts, I

thank you.

Malone

[Guest guest]

Dear Pete and Listmates,

I, too, am working with a client, age 54, with severe sleep issues.

She takes Ambien almost nightly, and has for several years. She says

that even with the Ambien she usually does not get to sleep until 5am,

and then sleeps for just a few hours.

Of note in her eyes closed brain maps is global significantly reduced

alpha magnitude, along with significantly reduced posterior theta and

mildly reduced parietal delta. Beta is mildly reduced at Cz and C4,

with normal dominant frequency. Beta is high in magnitude at Pz, with

too fast dominant frequency at all parietal sites, and high beta is

high at Pz and P4, too fast at Pz.

Her eyes open maps are similar in many ways, but also indicate

moderate to significantly increased delta midline and frontal, normal

beta at C sites but too fast at C3. High beta is significantly high at

Pz, and too fast dominant frequency.

Given these beta characteristics, SMR training at central sites is

clearly not contraindicated. My question is this. I am wondering if

the virtual absence of alpha just about anywhere in this brain would

change the recommendation to train SMR at C sites to support sleep. I

have been training alpha up at P4, eyes closed. It is very difficult

for her to get alpha going during training, though she has had some

success and even more so usually gets the high beta to come down

somewhat. I have also supplemented with HRV training, which she really

likes, and 10 hz visual entrainment using a PAL.

I am aware that many in the field, and it seems increasingly so, view

the dropout of alpha as the sign of a possible metabolic issue,

possibly related to adrenals.

Though I am not a TLC user, I have long been a follower and big fan of

this list, and have learned much from Pete and so many others on the

list over the years. For that, and in advance for your thoughts, I

thank you.

Malone

[Guest guest]

Yes, it was a quote from " The " Barry Sterman. Since hearing this that is what I

have been doing when training up SMR and given his reasoning it makes perfect

sense to me.

Another thing that is worth considering based on my own review of the research

on sleep spindle activity, is to have the client memorize a list of nonsense

syllables before going to bed each night as this also increases sleep spindle

activity.

Bruce

>

> Bruce -- thank you very much for this reply! Barry Sterman " The " Barry

Sterman? if yes -- wow....

>

> I will give c4 smr reward a go -- it was on my list. I suppose it is best to

start with known and used protocols. Your info states " always use the

contralateral ear as reference when working on only one hemisphere " -- this is

the first I have heard this -- do you also use the contralateral ear as a

reference when training one hemisphere? Just wondering.

>

> Thank you again! Enjoy your day...

> --

> Warm Regards,

>

>

>

> Lindsey

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, it was a quote from " The " Barry Sterman. Since hearing this that is what I

have been doing when training up SMR and given his reasoning it makes perfect

sense to me.

Another thing that is worth considering based on my own review of the research

on sleep spindle activity, is to have the client memorize a list of nonsense

syllables before going to bed each night as this also increases sleep spindle

activity.

Bruce

>

> Bruce -- thank you very much for this reply! Barry Sterman " The " Barry

Sterman? if yes -- wow....

>

> I will give c4 smr reward a go -- it was on my list. I suppose it is best to

start with known and used protocols. Your info states " always use the

contralateral ear as reference when working on only one hemisphere " -- this is

the first I have heard this -- do you also use the contralateral ear as a

reference when training one hemisphere? Just wondering.

>

> Thank you again! Enjoy your day...

> --

> Warm Regards,

>

>

>

> Lindsey

>

>

[Guest guest]



Please fee free to share your own thoughts about training SMR for sleep. I have no clue what "Scanning the PRoshi roster" has to do with that.

Bruce

Re: severe sleep issue

,

What characterizes the changes from Stage1 sleep (alpha down/theta up--as in alpha theta) and stage 2 sleep is bursts of 12-15 Hz "sleep spindles" in the sensory-motor cortex and K-complexes. Go back to basic SMR training at Cz and/or at C3/C4 and/or at C4/A2. Jeff Reich described in a post here some time back an interesting approach he uses, beginning with a couple sessions of just rewarding SMR levels and trying to guide the client to higher and higher levels without worrying about inhibits. Then when he and the client know the SMR target, they add inhibits.

Good SMR training is done with eyes open, but it often results in the client getting very heavy-eyed and drowsy, sometimes actually apparently falling asleep in the chair. When this happens, which it can especially with sleep-deprived clients, just let the training continue. When the feedback stops, the client will come up by herself.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.comUSA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 12:10 AM, mtlindsey2002 <mtlindsey@...> wrote:

Dear Pete and listmates,I am working with a 31 year old woman who began to experience severe insomnia about 2 years ago. She takes lunesta PLUS magnesium in order to get to sleep. She describes getting to that twilight state (7hz) and then stays stuck there the entire night unless she takes the lunesta --which alone does not work. She alternates the lunesta and magnesium and melatonin with just magnesium and melatonin. She had hot temporals so I trained that (5x)-- no improvement, I did an alpha theta with her and she said that moved her to the state that she stays in all night -- and she had lots and lots and lots of crossover. Pete-- what would you recommend. I think I'd like to start her on alpha theta and then change the "cross over" to the hertz that would follow the twilight state. Do you know what this would be? What would you recommend?Many thanks in advance for your response(s)Warm regards,

[Guest guest]

Bruce, I'm fascinated by the idea of recommending memorization. Do you provide this list of nonsense syllables or ask your client to produce a list or lists? Also, I may be misunderstanding, but how does this not just rev up someone's beta to the point that sleep onset is delayed?

Tamera

Re: severe sleep issue

Yes, it was a quote from "The" Barry Sterman. Since hearing this that is what I have been doing when training up SMR and given his reasoning it makes perfect sense to me. Another thing that is worth considering based on my own review of the research on sleep spindle activity, is to have the client memorize a list of nonsense syllables before going to bed each night as this also increases sleep spindle activity. Bruce>> Bruce -- thank you very much for this reply! Barry Sterman "The" Barry Sterman? if yes -- wow....> > I will give c4 smr reward a go -- it was on my list. I suppose it is best to start with known and used protocols. Your info states "always use the contralateral ear as reference when working on only one hemisphere" -- this is the first I have heard this -- do you also use the contralateral ear as a reference when training one hemisphere? Just wondering.> > Thank you again! Enjoy your day...> --> Warm Regards,> > > > Lindsey> >

[Guest guest]

Marry,In my case, fp2-t4-a2 reward 0-0.1Hz worked really well.If nothing worked, you may consider trying it.Jo 

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

Once at a conference/workshop with Barry Sterman in England I got my " ears burn "

by him when I told him that

I used to do one ear reference on monopolar training. He looked at me and say

that I should NEVER use one

ear reference, ALWAYS a linked ear reference. Today, I seldom forget what he

told whenever I do NF being

monopolar or bipolar NF training. I use always linked ear reference.

Bye for now,

-----

Alvoeiro,Ph.D.(Hull,UK),C.Psychol.(BPS,UK)

2000-119 Santarem,

Portugal

E-mail: jorge.alvoeiro@...

http://jorge0alvoeiro.no.sapo.pt/

________________________________

De: em nome de Bruce Z. Berman

Enviada: qua 06-06-2012 13:56

Para:

Assunto: Re: severe sleep issue

Given ,This response below on another list server by Barry Sterman you might

also want to consider training A1/C4

Bruce

> But why would you ever use an ipsilateral reference for a

>site

>being trained? Placing the reference on the right ear while training

>at C4

>will significantly attenuate the C4 signal due to signal propagation

>to the

>reference and resulting common-mode rejection. You always want to

>maximize

>the relevant signal. I teach people to always use the contralateral

>ear as

>reference when working on only one hemisphere. That is, if training

>is at

>C4, place the reference on the left ear and vica-versa. When training

>involves multiple sites on both hemispheres a link-ear reference is

>necessary.

[Guest guest]

Hi Pete,

I appreciate your input. I also have a client with severe insomnia. Just

wondering if you could clarify. What do you mean when you say, " When the client

and trainer know the target. " And also, when you do know 'the target' how do

you know what inhibits to add. Thanks for helping me understand this better.

Joan

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Dear Pete and listmates,

> >

> > I am working with a 31 year old woman who began to experience severe

> > insomnia about 2 years ago. She takes lunesta PLUS magnesium in order to

> > get to sleep. She describes getting to that twilight state (7hz) and then

> > stays stuck there the entire night unless she takes the lunesta --which

> > alone does not work. She alternates the lunesta and magnesium and melatonin

> > with just magnesium and melatonin. She had hot temporals so I trained that

> > (5x)-- no improvement, I did an alpha theta with her and she said that

> > moved her to the state that she stays in all night -- and she had lots and

> > lots and lots of crossover.

> >

> > Pete-- what would you recommend. I think I'd like to start her on alpha

> > theta and then change the " cross over " to the hertz that would follow the

> > twilight state. Do you know what this would be? What would you recommend?

> >

> > Many thanks in advance for your response(s)

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Add to this simple procedural motor tasks and declarative memory tasks.

EEG training of SMR may be increasing sleep spindle activity because it is a

type of motor learning which requires the brain to prime itself for better sleep

in order to consolidate the learning.

In terms of such tasks keeping people from sleeping, that is an empirical

question. In the studies it improved sleep and did not interfere with it.

If clients sleep get worse if you try such home work, than it's not for them.

Bruce

> >

> > Bruce -- thank you very much for this reply! Barry Sterman " The " Barry

Sterman? if yes -- wow....

> >

> > I will give c4 smr reward a go -- it was on my list. I suppose it is best

to start with known and used protocols. Your info states " always use the

contralateral ear as reference when working on only one hemisphere " -- this is

the first I have heard this -- do you also use the contralateral ear as a

reference when training one hemisphere? Just wondering.

> >

> > Thank you again! Enjoy your day...

> > --

> > Warm Regards,

> >

> >

> >

> > Lindsey

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Is it really disordered sleep? The answer may not be as clear cut as we think.

Have a read below;

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/display/article/10168/55271?pageNumber=2

[Guest guest]

Hello all,

thank you all again for your responses (and JO so nice to hear form you:) ! I

am still trying. Normally with sleep issues I see some kind of result right

away --some relaxation, so mental quieting, all the way to falling asleep during

the training. This person is not responding to any protocols. I normally do

not jump around on protocols in the beginning but in this case I have because

she reports NO changes. EXCEPT -- the night she did the C4 SMR reward she

experienced a migraine that she had before the traing that went away, she was

clear headed and wide awake with energy --but could not sleep --so she felt

better overall but could not sleep ...I changed to EC SMR at CZ yesterday and am

waiting to hear from her today about sleep last night. I am going add the

memorized nonsense syllables.

Even when clients take ambien I typically get quick results and they able to

titrate off the meds. I am wondering about the Lunesta she is taking. She

takes it alternate nights with the melatonin and magnesium. She is now needing

higher doses of the lunesta. She does not take the lunesta on the nights that

she does neurofeedback. I am wondering if the lunesta is creating a problem --

possible withdrawal or craving/need on the nights she doesn't take it. This

alternate night pattern was in place prior to the nft. I am hesitant to

continue training her past 10 sessions (we are at 8) if she has no results at

all. I am stumped-- I have no yet had this experience with NO results.... Any

additional input would be greatly appreciated.

--

Warm Regards,

Lindsey

[Guest guest]

Hi ,Does she have a candida overgrowth? The waste from candida is ammonia. Wave a little bit of that under someones nose and watch them perk right up. Imagine what it would do to sleep patterns being released directly into the blood. It is common for candida to overgrow especially after a round of antibiotics.It isn't a NF solution, sorry. CC: sato3jp@...From: mtlindsey@...Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2012 18:48:30 +0000Subject: Re: severe sleep issue Hello all,thank you all again for your responses (and JO so nice to hear form you:) ! I am still trying. Normally with sleep issues I see some kind of result right away --some relaxation, so mental quieting, all the way to falling asleep during the training. This person is not responding to any protocols. I normally do not jump around on protocols in the beginning but in this case I have because she reports NO changes. EXCEPT -- the night she did the C4 SMR reward she experienced a migraine that she had before the traing that went away, she was clear headed and wide awake with energy --but could not sleep --so she felt better overall but could not sleep ...I changed to EC SMR at CZ yesterday and am waiting to hear from her today about sleep last night. I am going add the memorized nonsense syllables. Even when clients take ambien I typically get quick results and they able to titrate off the meds. I am wondering about the Lunesta she is taking. She takes it alternate nights with the melatonin and magnesium. She is now needing higher doses of the lunesta. She does not take the lunesta on the nights that she does neurofeedback. I am wondering if the lunesta is creating a problem -- possible withdrawal or craving/need on the nights she doesn't take it. This alternate night pattern was in place prior to the nft. I am hesitant to continue training her past 10 sessions (we are at 8) if she has no results at all. I am stumped-- I have no yet had this experience with NO results.... Any additional input would be greatly appreciated. --Warm Regards, Lindsey

[Guest guest]

My experience in a case like this is that some nutritional components need to be

addressed. We all know neurofeedback works as you have shared with other cases

you have had. When it is not most of the time I find that it is related to

various metabolic processes. The brain and the body are connected. There is an

active biochemical system operating concurrently with the neurological system.

When one is not responding the other often needs to be addressed.

Someone posted already about Candida. Yes this could be part of the equation

but not al of it I have seen the most difficulties with sleep issues are often

connected to a adrenal exhaustion (myself included). My medical training was in

Oriental Medicine and I frequently use hair mineral testing to identify where

the metabolic issues are arising from. I find it similar to doing a brain map

except here we see the mineral balances in the body which interestingly

corresponded directly with Hans Selye's Stress Cycle. From here appropriate

supplementation seems to greatly enhance the training and address the

biochemical issue that would affect proper brain functioning. Sometimes it is

blood sugar, sometimes it is thyroid but most of the time I find because of the

way the stress cycle works in humans that the adrenals have taken a beating and

just can not do their job as they once used to.

Feel free to contact me for more information if you like.

Hopson

www.inspirinhealth.net

[Guest guest]

Would be happy to take a look at assessment for you. Have worked with lots of

sleep disorders. Excellent success. Very odd your not getting success. It may be

something very simple right in front of you that your overlooking. It usually

is!!!

Sent from my iPad

[Guest guest]

Oh Sharrie thank you! I will send the TLC assess tonight if that is okay!

Thank you so much for generosity!

--

Warm Regards,

Lindsey

[Guest guest]

This was actually Jeff Reich's post, but my understanding was that he trained only to increase SMR for a couple sessions until he was clear what was a good level of SMR for that client (the target).  Using that for his reward target, he would then add in inhibits (usually slow frequencies and/or fast frequencies based on the client's EEG as it is seen in the power spectrum.

Pete-- Van Deusenpvdtlc@...http://www.brain-trainer.com

USA 678 224 5895BR 47 3346 6235The Learning Curve, Inc.

On Thu, Jun 7, 2012 at 3:47 PM, Joan Vonniessen <joanvon@...> wrote:

 

Hi Pete,

I appreciate your input. I also have a client with severe insomnia. Just wondering if you could clarify. What do you mean when you say, " When the client and trainer know the target. " And also, when you do know 'the target' how do you know what inhibits to add. Thanks for helping me understand this better.

Joan

>

> > **

> >

> >

> > Dear Pete and listmates,

> >

> > I am working with a 31 year old woman who began to experience severe

> > insomnia about 2 years ago. She takes lunesta PLUS magnesium in order to

> > get to sleep. She describes getting to that twilight state (7hz) and then

> > stays stuck there the entire night unless she takes the lunesta --which

> > alone does not work. She alternates the lunesta and magnesium and melatonin

> > with just magnesium and melatonin. She had hot temporals so I trained that

> > (5x)-- no improvement, I did an alpha theta with her and she said that

> > moved her to the state that she stays in all night -- and she had lots and

> > lots and lots of crossover.

> >

> > Pete-- what would you recommend. I think I'd like to start her on alpha

> > theta and then change the " cross over " to the hertz that would follow the

> > twilight state. Do you know what this would be? What would you recommend?

> >

> > Many thanks in advance for your response(s)

> >

> > Warm regards,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I agree with you. I also use TMA's and 100% of the time when the NFB isn't

working there is a metabolic imbalance! Not most of the time. All of the

times. I offered to look at her asmnt and what she has done to make sure she is

on target with training then talk metabolic concerns.

Sent from my iPad